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Quote# 138074

Cancel Wrote:
What laws would be the ones which would need fixing, or removing, to help us out? For example, age ones, rape ones, female voting ones, etc.

Just think about what our problems are and what political changes would we need to target? To help think of things, what were good laws which were changed for the worse?

Stop the ban on judges approving child marriage being imposed by many states. We still have time for this one. A lot of big name opponents to banning child marriage exist and have been successful, including the ACLU in California! Delaware thus far has been the only successful state to impose the ban fully. We should overturn it there too!

galileo1439, Incelocalypse 1 Comments [6/14/2018 10:57:52 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 138082

(This happened in 2014.)

Ahmad Salek, chairman of Iran’s parliamentary cultural commission, on Tuesday accused his country’s Baha’i community of spying for Israel and the United States.

“I declare very explicitly that Baha’ism is an espionage organization which gathers intelligence for the CIA and Mossad, and there are abundant documents to prove this,” the Fars news agency quoted Salek saying.

Fars, which is affiliated with the Revolutionary Guard, reported in the same article comments Iran’s then-prosecutor-general Qorban-Ali Dorri-Najafabadi made in 2009: “We [as the state] offer a variety of services to the Baha’i sect in Iran and respect them as human beings, but not as insiders, spies, or a political grouplet supported by Britain and Israel to cause disturbance in Iran.” The Baha’i community faces intense persecution from the regime. Last October, Dr. Ahmed Shaheed, the UN special rapporteur on human rights in Iran, issued a report that included a section on the persecution.

He wrote, ”The special rapporteur continues to observe what appears to be an escalating pattern of systematic human rights violations targeting members of the Baha’i community, who face arbitrary detention, torture and ill-treatment, national security charges for active involvement in religious affairs, restrictions on religious practice, denial of higher education, obstacles to state employment and abuses within schools.”

Last August, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued an edict – or fatwa – calling on all Iranians to ostracize the Baha’is. After Khamenei issued the fatwa, Ataollah Rezvani, a popular Baha’i leader, was murdered. It is unclear who killed Rezvani.

Salek’s comments triggered reactions in cyber space. The Financial Times Middle East and North Africa correspondent tweeted on Tuesday, “Outrageous: #Iran lawmaker claims entire Baha’i faith is an espionage outfit for the CIA & Mossad.“ Earlier this month, the Baha’i World New Service reported a stabbing attack on a Baha’i family in Birjand in eastern Iran. According to the report, the three victims – husband, wife and daughter – survived the attack. “The attacker – who was masked – entered the home of Ghodratollah Moodi and his wife, Touba Sabzehjou,” the news service wrote.

Diane Ala’i, the Baha’i International Community’s representative to the United Nations in Geneva, said, “There can be no doubt that this crime was religiously motivated. Mr. Moodi was well-known as a leader in the Baha’i community in Birjand. “Our immediate concern is for the recovery of the Moodi family. But we are also concerned that authorities in Iran begin immediately to investigate this crime and bring the perpetrator to justice.

“The sad fact is that there have been more than 50 physical assaults on Iranian Baha’is since 2005 – and none of the attackers has been prosecuted or otherwise brought to justice. And at least nine Baha’is have been murdered under suspicious circumstances in the same period,” Ala’i said.

Ahmad Salek, Jerusalem Post 3 Comments [6/14/2018 11:01:01 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 138066

the-at-symbol asked:

How do you feel about birth control being offered to girls under 16 (the general age of consent)

It is not good.

1. Everyone reacts to hormonal medication differently. Side effects can range from uncomfortable to lethal. It’s not something to choose lightly, especially without parental input.

2. Birth control is not 100% effective. If a girl is on the pill, she needs to take it at the same time every day. For a young teenager, this may not be realistic.

3. Long-term birth control methods such as an IUD have been associated with dangerous complications that have resulted in infertility. Allowing a teenager to risk losing her fertility permanently is irresponsible.

4. Self-control and self-discipline are skills that need to be taught. Throwing our hands up and saying, “Teenagers will be teenagers” means we are failing those teenagers. We gave up on teaching responsibility and self-control. Anyone else see the consequences of that?

5. For reproductive health issues there are more effective ways to actually treat the underlying problem rather than put a bandaid on it. If a girl has endometriosis, ovarian cysts, etc., those problems need to be treated, not covered up. If you mask the symptoms and the underlying problem persists, she’ll face the same difficulty if she decides to have kids and goes off the birth control. If you treat the problem, her quality of life will go up dramatically.

prolifeproliberty, Tumblr 4 Comments [6/14/2018 12:21:51 PM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 138088

(Commenting on story "Children's Cartoon 'Drag Tots' to Feature ‘Baby Drag Queens’ Voiced by Cast of ‘RuPaul’s Drag Race’"):

and the TIDAL WAVE of depravity continues to flow in ...... gotta have them kids GROOMED ..... to make way for the legalization of Pedophilia ............. and all those who want to say no one wants to legalize that ..... all you have to do is look at 80s and 90s and 2000s TV to see how we were inundated with homosexual characters and that agenda so they could finally deceive everyone into homomirage into this country ..... the PIT of depravity has no bottom .........

Amos Moses, Christian News Network 8 Comments [6/15/2018 2:27:50 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 138092

Its time for a witch hunt.

We need to find the deceivers among us, they are NOT our friends!!! Its time to start naming name's of people whom you suspect are fakecels. Not accusing anybody of course but I think @EthnicelNL @Redpill Robert, @Barry and @yungcel are all suspect af.
I am disgusted that some of you shelter these animals, these traitors, you are just as guilty as them, do the honorable thing and call them out, throw them to the wolves, we need justice. It shouldnt have taken so long to expose @whogivesafucc or @blackletcel .

You have full immunity here, dont be afraid to speak up. We need to keep this community pure. Its our job as the trucel vanguard to keep this place free of LARPers and fakecels.

Incelibate Anarchist, incels.me 14 Comments [6/15/2018 2:30:50 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138123

I think attaching cel to everything is a bit cucked tbh...

"Oh hey dude I'm a studycel! I'm a truecel! I'm everything-cel!!!"

So fucking cucked. I honestly think most of you are low T.

LebaneseCel, incels.me 10 Comments [6/16/2018 2:40:44 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138126

Women should be allowed do work

Without being paid. America is great because once upon a time we had slaves. If we brought back slavery, we could make America great again.

Polycel, Incelocalypse 8 Comments [6/16/2018 2:40:54 AM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138142


CNN) -- She could have sentenced him to 20 years in prison after he admitted to raping a 14-year-old girl in her high school.

Instead, a Texas judge gave the defendant a 45-day sentence and probation after implying that the victim was promiscuous.

Judge Jeanine Howard told The Dallas Morning News that she based the sentence, in part, on medical records indicating that the girl had had three sexual partners and had given birth.

She told the newspaper that the victim "wasn't the victim she claimed to be" and said the defendant, 20-year-old Sir Young, "is not your typical sex offender."

Ok...flame me if you like...but it doesn't sound like this guy is 100% like the prototypical rapist.

And I really do have to ask...and again flame me all you want...but *if* this girl did lead him on...and did bring him to the brink of the cliff...but then all of a sudden say "no"....how can some of the responsibility not be on her?

I mean really....nobody put a gun to her head and forced her into this whole situation in the first place.

I think the judge is trying to show that the girl has to take responsibility for her actions....one of them being that she made the poor decision to even meet this guy alone somewhere.

Think about that for a minute. They were someplace secluded enough for them to have intercourse....which turned into rape.

I for one don't think, given what I have read so far, that the boy was lying when he said she agreed to meet him for a hook up. Why else would they be in such a place that would allow this kind of thing to happen?

Yes...there are definite instances of rape when the victim is teuly the victim through -zero- fault of their own.

But to knowingly choose to put yourself in a position where it is a possibility of happening....and then claim that you aren't at all responsible in the least for what happened?

Sorry....but that dog don't hunt for me.

And I believe that is what the judge is getting at. In an instance like this, the responsibility should be shared. That there are consequences for actions and choices that we make....and if you don't want to suffer the consequences of poor decision making....then don't make poor decisions.

Just because they are women/girls does not mean that they should get a free pass for poor decision making. Its actually very degrading and flies in the face of all the demands for equality that women have been fighting for over the centuries.

Again...this never would have happened had she not made a poor decision to be in such a place where this guy could have done this.

Just like he never should have made any numher of bad decisions that ultimately led to rape.

There is, in my opinion, blame a plenty to go around in this situation.

TheMeanDM, Dakka Dakka Forums 5 Comments [6/16/2018 9:09:40 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 138143

The Psychology of Atheism - The Suppression of Truth

There will always be people who do not honor God both inside the church and outside the church. Although they may live like their is no God, they certainly don't believe nor act like like their is no God. Christians are just fine with the freedom of religious expression in America. Let there be now mistaking the situation. The real reason the Atheists, Muslims, Homosexual Activists, Socialists, Communists, Wiccans, Pagans, Satanists and Secular Humanists all have a problem with an American's constitutional right of religious expression in public places and feel sooo uncomfortable when they hear the name JESUS spoken respectfully is because they all are following the very same Devil on earth and worship the very same "god of self." That's exactly why they feel like and assume that all the religions are the same, give the violence of muslims a pass, and will be tolerant of all the world religions EXCEPT FOR the genuine expression of a relationship with Jesus Christ and His Gospel, because they have more in common with the rebellion of Satan that drives them toward a devils hell than Jesus Christ the Lord.

The reason God-haters have the habit of expressing such high levels of unreasonableness and hostility against christians as if they are possessed, is because they probably are … and its demonic (exhibiting the will, attitudes, and actions of fallen angels - demons). The reason many are so viscous and antagonistic against Christ and the religious expression of those like Tebow, is because we are witnessing a reenactment of the very same hostility and vitriol Jesus Christ experienced from humans who were completely taken over by such demonic rage that they sought to mock at and crucify him on a roman cross. It's no accident that God-haters have unwittingly become the living host for the these same demonic spirits as they reenact the persecution of Jesus Christ through those whom God calls "the body of Christ" (genuine christians) on the earth . Those who despise the God of the Bible, do so, because He is the only God that actively deals with them about their sin in person and exposes the evil that they do whether people are looking or not. He is the Only God who is Absolute Truth and Holiness personified in the Face of Christ. God love people too much to leave them in the condition they are. People just need to respond. They themselves experience the same convicting power of God regardless of culture or ethnic background. God is drawing all of us to receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Even the Bible gives the most validated and reliable account of the human condition along with historical reality, archeological accuracy, and scientific veracity. The One and Only God of the Bible actually confirms his word with a demonstration of power and actively reveals truth to the Human Heart and mind while bring conviction & correction before ones consciously aware of God's will written in scripture confirming His ways in the 3 dimensional world so that nobody has any excuse to deny that they never knew what God expected in the first place.

Atheists are Imaginary … they don't exist.

Watch: Proof Your Soul Exists and It's Destination


PROFESSOR X, Atheism is Imaginary 7 Comments [6/16/2018 9:09:44 AM]
Fundie Index: 6

Quote# 138146

"Today's Laugh 6-16-18"

Pelosi: "Bill, you and Hillary need to just...go away. Please? You're killing us!"

Voice on phone: "Sounds like somebody didn't take her TDS pill. I had mine. Haven't made a delusional anti-Trump rant all day."

Pelosi: "I did take it. That's why I finally said something coherent!"

Mick Williams, Disqus - Faith & Religion 4 Comments [6/16/2018 9:10:08 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Jocasta

Quote# 138160

You guys are ducking the HBD angle. HBD says that IQ and athletic ability are largely heritable, with group differences and policy implications. The same can be said for personality traits, and they are almost as important as IQ. Isn’t it possible that Chinese students have personality traits that make them less desirable at Harvard?

The NY Times gives the impression that personality is just a bogus excuse for discriminating against Asian-Americans. But what is the truth? Is it possible that the Harvard admissions folks are accurately judging real and important traits?

Denying the reality of these traits seems just as absurd as denying the reality of IQ. On the other hand, I have no idea whether Harvard can judge these personality traits reasonably.

Roger , Lion of the Blogosphere 7 Comments [6/16/2018 1:54:02 PM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 138166

(=On the Bible and Polygamy=)

God also 'permitted' divorce and allowed Moses to issue certificates of divorce, but it wasn't His desire. He did it because of the sinfulness of man. I can't think for God, sin is sin and it matters not the generation. Besides all that, Jesus reaffirmed for the people the proper, godly, and right understanding of marriage, condemning the divorce certificate for nearly all reason (except unfaithfulness), and reaffirming that marriage is for one man and one woman only. This is how it was in the beginning, sinful people screwed up (as we do most things), God permitted it and even used it for his own advantage from time to time, but then reaffirmed it in Christ.

Seth D. Young, Patheos 4 Comments [6/17/2018 12:48:47 AM]
Fundie Index: 1
Submitted By: Christopher

Quote# 138177

I usually do not reply to your kind (libs;) however, for a reason/reasons I do not understand, I will reply to you, and probably not again.
You lie when you say you want to hear an explanation. What you want to do is be given a platform to argue, to mock truth, and promote confusion, lies, corruption, destruction, and death.
Beside these things, you lack the capacity to recognize truth when exposed to it. This is happening to you because you have already chosen to hate God; subsequently, you must hate truth. As Jesus (God) repetitively highlighted, all of us are blind and deaf to truth until God himself heals us. There is no way for anyone to enlighten anyone who clings to their hatred of God. You display haughtiness and mockery.
Telling you the truth before you become humble is a lot like watering a rock.

Dark days, Christian News Network 7 Comments [6/17/2018 11:23:54 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Bob J

Quote# 138171

Psychology doesn't even exist

It's ALL about the neurotransmitters (and their receptors and sensitivity, but you get the point)

There is literally NO free will

Everything we like, hate, whether we are talkative or shy, happy or sad, excited or bored, what we lik to do and what we don't like to do, the choices we make, it's all 100% controlled by neurotransmitters

There is nothing what "we" are, we are quite passive observers obedient to the chemical reactions in our body, we do what they tell us, we cannot really change anything about it

Rotting Penis, Sluthate 11 Comments [6/17/2018 8:40:10 AM]
Fundie Index: 1
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138178

Recently I’ve had multiple conversations with people about how to apply the Old Testament today. At times it seems like we pick and choose which parts, and which laws we should still observe. Some will interpret the Old Testament literally while others will write it off and say, “that’s in the Old Testament so that doesn’t apply to us today.” The Old Testament is more than 3 times as long as the New Testament and there is a reason God left it in the Bible and Jesus Himself put His stamp of approval on it. So how exactly does the OT apply to the NT Christian? How can we see the practical benefit from studying it? How do we interpret it correctly? This article will seek to provide 3 questions you should ask yourself that will serve as what I believe are the best principles for how we should approach the OT to extract the most value out of it. As an aside I STRONGLY encourage you to read through and study the book of Hebrews. It will clear much of this confusion up in no time.


Okay that’s a bunch of theological jargon so let me explain the difference between the two. When Moses communicated God’s laws to His people there were both ceremonial laws and moral laws. We must understand that the covenant God made in the OT was with the Jews, not the Gentiles. So the laws then don’t and never did apply to us today. Think of it like a state law. They were in Florida. We are in Texas. Are we obligated to obey specific laws that are unique to Florida? No. Not unless the laws are common to both states. The OT law was written for several reasons.

To reveal the utter sinfulness of mankind and our desperate need for a Savior – Rom. 7:7-9; Gal. 3:24

To set Israel apart from other nations

To train them in the ways of holiness having come out of Egyptian slavery.

To provide a “type” or “foreshadowing” of Jesus – Col. 2:16-17; Heb. 10:1 – In other words, they were symbolic of what Jesus Christ would one day come to the earth to do.

Several NT scriptures indicate that we are no longer under these laws but instead, we exist under a New Covenant (Rom. 10:4; Gal. 3:24-26; Eph. 2:15; Heb. 8:10-13). Below are some examples of ceremonial OT laws no longer valid today.

Dietary Restrictions – Jesus said,
It’s not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth.

Animal Sacrifices – Hebrews 10 teaches us that there is no longer a need for animal sacrifices because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice.

Uncleanness – There were a list of things that made an Israelite “unclean” (leprosy, blood, male discharge, mildew, etc.). In other words, if they had these conditions they were to be set apart from others until they offered a sacrifice and got cleansed again. One such question that comes up frequently is, “is it prohibited for a husband and wife to have sexual intercourse during a woman’s menstrual cycle?” Once again this was part of the ceremonial law which we are not under. The NT also sheds light on this when it says a husband and wife should not deprive one another except by mutual consent for a season. In other words, each couple may choose not to for whatever reason but it is not a sin to do so (see also Heb. 13:4).

Circumcision – Paul explains that physical circumcision is of no value if your heart is not first circumcised (Rom. 2:25-29). In other words, the hardness of your heart must be removed.

Sabbath Day – This is the only one of the Ten Commandments that is not explicitly repeated in the NT. On the contrary it teaches that we should treat every day the same (Col. 2:16-17; Rom. 15:4). In other words, like many things under grace, it is a matter of personal choice and conviction.

As you can see the OT ceremonial laws are discussed in the NT and it is clear that we are not under any obligation to fulfill them. However, the moral laws of the OT are still binding because they are either repeated, further explained (Matt. 5-7) or fall under the “love your neighbor as yourself” or “love God with all your heart” commandments.

Allen Parr, Allen Parr 10 Comments [6/17/2018 12:22:15 PM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 138190

Would the advocates of the false proposition of marital rape agree with us as Bible believing Christians that what the husband in the Markland Letter did was physical abuse even to the point of possibly endangering his wife’s life? Of course, they would.

But from a Biblical perspective it is absolutely impossible for a man to rape his wife because a man can only rape a woman he is not married to.
In other words, from a Biblical perspective forced sex within the confines of marriage is not and cannot ever be classified as rape, but only forced sex outside of the confines of marriage can rightly be considered rape.

Also I need to point out something very important for Christians to understand about rape. The world says rape is immoral because it violates a woman’s consent to sexual relations but the Bible shows us rape is wrong because it violates God’s consent for a man to have sexual relations with a woman. God only consents to a man having sexual relations with a woman if he has entered into a covenant of marriage with her and then he may have sex with her “at all times” as Proverbs 5:19 commands.

However, Ephesians 5:28-29’s command for men to care for the needs of their wife’s body is a Biblical caveat to Proverbs 5:19’s exhortation for men to sexually satisfy themselves with their wife’s body at all times.

While we as Christians should reject the false construct of marital rape we should certainly recognize the possibility of a husband physically abusing his wife and this Markland Letter case shows the husband did just that. A woman’s genitals need time to heal after giving birth. Even if the surgery was for something different than complications after child birth – if a husband forces himself on his wife with complete disregard for the damage it may cause her after surgery this is a clear violation of the Ephesians 5:28-29 principle that he is to care for the welfare of his wife’s body.

The truth is that free love advocates and feminists had (and still have today) a more insidious agenda. They did not want to simply condemn physical abuses which occurred in this marriage situation or others. They wanted to condemn the entire concept of Christian marriage itself with the husband as the head of the wife as an abusive relational construct and they wanted to eliminate traditional marriage from American society.

biblicalgenderroles, Biblical Gender Roles 3 Comments [6/18/2018 11:23:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 4

Quote# 138184

Interesting insight.

Only those with dark triad personalities acquire women. Yet society encourages people to not be dark triad. And those who are not dark triad are those who don't get laid.
Mating is an essential element to humanity. As is bonding with the opposite sex.
Dark triadity is implied as an evolutionary survival mechanism.
It seems to be the zenith of what we are supposed to become as a species.
Fairybraiding is just wishfultwisting for the weak.
Just like how most things in nature turn out to be dirty, and refinement is an exception, but not the rule... as are humanity's spirits.
And we haven't changed. We're just great finessers.
No one is truly friends with another.
The ego gives off that illusion. We're all really just in it for power/ prominence/ dominance/ supremacy.

Eugenicist, Sluthate 6 Comments [6/18/2018 7:39:05 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138186

There's no reason not to be a sociopath.

Everyone is a narcissist. And everyone is selectively graceful, and not generally to anyone who approaches. Everyone would prioritize their own grandness over community. Being communal in most people's mind is just a necessity to stay inculpable and to avoid society's wrath.

Eugenicist, Sluthate 8 Comments [6/18/2018 7:39:10 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138176

Men are simply born men! Women simply are born women! Ask any non-Darwinist geneticist and you tell me what the truth is! If Transgenderism is valid, why do transgendered "women" commit crimes at similar rates to men? Because they are MEN! Yet I'm the one with the third grade understanding of science.

Homosexuality is unnatural because children who are raised in homosexual households are more likely to be in poverty, incarcerated, depressed, and also more likely to become homosexuals. This is verified information

Taylor Swift's "reputation" album and corresponding music videos have shown off her drunkenness, vindictiveness, as well as her lack of modesty in attire. Quite sad, really.

Next, I am not a schizophrenic person, and you libs have obviously never heard of reusing content with permission. I simply reused the content from Pastor Grimes' sermons to bring the light of the Gospel of Christ to the unsaved heathens residing there until I was removed by hyper-PC liberals who decided that the word "tranny" was comparable to the n-word. When were trannies enslaved again in the United States? Please enlighten me. Trannies and tranny enablers are insulting the African American community by spewing nonsense like that.

James A. Wilson, FSTDT comments 15 Comments [6/17/2018 11:23:27 AM]
Fundie Index: 6

Quote# 138180

Former homosexuals and children of LGBTs speak the truth!

At the Teens4Truth Conference at the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary on Nov. 18, 2017. Real people countering the lies that we are all being constantly told about the LGBT lifestyle.

MassResistance, Youtube 5 Comments [6/18/2018 12:15:35 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 128793

I'm wondering if people choose philosophical materialism or forms of moral irrealism because under it they are completely vindicated and such philosophies provide salvation for the ego.

This of course would be impossible in world views and religions which cause for repentance, trust, or at least a start from moral need or need of enlightenment since these call for a recognition of deficit.

Emergence - the Musical, Religion and Ethics 4 Comments [7/3/2017 1:43:24 PM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Nearly Sane

Quote# 138168

The economic rationale behind the Asian cap is donor money. It is likely that Harvard receives most of its donations from wealthy White individuals. If the school became seen as "too Asian" these donors would stop giving. Why give money to an institution they see as not benefiting "their" kind?

If there was no cap at the Ivy League schools, America's elite could become predominantly Asian American within a few generations. This sudden demographic change would receive major backlash and resentment from the White majority. The United States, whether you like it or not, is still a White, Western country that primarily serves this group's interests. No group relishes in seeing themselves become a minority in their own country.

Suppose the top universities in China became overwhelmingly White. Do you not think there would be backlash and attempts to limit their numbers as well? Of course there would.

Thinker , Nytimes 2 Comments [6/17/2018 12:49:06 AM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 138169

I have no honor

Homo sapiens prefer results of dominance, and will cut past every regulation/ regimentation/ conduct code for it. They will bulldoze over honor, family, community for it.
There is no good or evil, there is only power and those without the sense to sieze it.

Eugenicist, Sluthate 8 Comments [6/17/2018 11:21:21 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138175

This is what happens when an unnatractive man manages to have kids.

Lol he's not even on the front of that lunchbox, it's Chad cena instead.
Unnatractive guys that manage to reproduce through money and status are the cause of most of the users on here, they have been creating too many unnatractive children and not realising that the kids won't have the same advantages like they do.
For example, most incels on here have parents from third world countries where the father could just get an arraigned marriage or betabux some wife that wants to move to the west.
And then they have ugly sons in the west, and the ugly sons have absolutely no way of getting woman like their fathers did.

Crustaciouse, incels.me 16 Comments [6/17/2018 8:40:28 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 138154

I was deeply moved by Julie Hinds’ story, recently told on MercatorNet: “Alternative Truths: A wife’s view of a gay coming out”. I am another ex-wife of a homosexual. Our stories have been too slow to come to light.

In the 30 years since Bill left me and embarked on the gay lifestyle, I’ve struggled to recover from the deep wounds left in the wake of his deception.


A man concerned only with having a wife as a public face is not inclined to treat her as his spiritual and intellectual companion, any more than as a lover. This was my experience.

Billy and I grew up together, started dating after high school and married while still in our teens. We’d been married two years when, during an argument about his non-communication and lack of attention, he broke down and told me he’d been seduced, at age 14, by an older man. “I’ve always been afraid that, if you hadn’t fallen in love with me and married me, that’s where I would have ended up,” he told me. There was not a word about his loving me.

I was young and naïve, I wasn’t close to my parents, and in my community in the 1960s and 70s, nice people just didn’t talk about some things. I was afraid my pastor would contact Bill’s boss if I went to him, so I didn’t get any sort of counseling until Bill eventually left me. In fact, after being physically sick for several days after that revelation, because it was just too much to deal with, I tried, rather too successfully, to put it out of my mind. We had three children (because I refused to take No for an answer, if you want to know), and we were active in our church all that time.

When, after 11-and-a-half years of marriage, Bill announced his intention of leaving me, my immediate reaction was relief. I’d grown to hate him, over the years, for not taking me seriously as a woman, as a human being. Bill has never been able to see that I possessed any real value or interest in my own right. Most of our arguments were over that. I didn’t or couldn’t remember his earlier admission about the seduction, and he always tried to deflect the blame for his lack of attention back on me: I wasn’t a good housekeeper, so he was too uptight to be affectionate or companionable, or some such thing. But I couldn’t leave. Our religious beliefs, as I understood them, prohibited divorce. I was also afraid of being alone. But now he was leaving. I was going to be free, at last.

I didn’t realize until five months after he moved out, and I ran into him and his partner at the grocery store, what had been going on. The electricity between the two men was palpable. I realized, They’re in love with each other! and remembered the disclosure he’d made years before. Oh, thank God! I thought. If I’d been perfect it still wouldn’t have been enough!

But there was also shock and fear. The realization of just what it meant, that Bill was gay, was a terrible blow. I had been, in gay slang, a “beard,” a false front to give him an acceptable public identity. Everything I had thought was true about myself and my world was suddenly proven false. I didn’t know what was real in my world, any more, or who I was in it. I teetered on the brink of a nervous breakdown for several years after that night, and only slowly recovered some sense of normality.

My work during the first few years of being single had me connecting with a variety of mental health professionals in our city. I wanted to understand what had happened to me – and to Bill; I asked them, Is there any literature about the impact of a husband’s homosexuality on his straight wife? No, they said. Thirty years later there still isn’t. This is why our stories are so important – they comfort us in our basic shared experiences, they assure us we are normal.

Maybe, some day, the psychological community will decide we deserve attention, and studies and papers, too. I’m not holding my breath: an industry that has defined its terms based on politics (as happened following the 1973 American Psychological Association convention, which decided to remove homosexuality from the manual of mental disorders) is not likely to give credence to a point of view opposing that position.

Our struggle is made harder than it ought to be by several factors. The lack of available information about what has happened to us is one. Another is the current political climate that lionizes homosexuality and dismisses us. Our gay husbands are so courageous, so heroic for coming out and claiming their truth . . . They are the important ones, they deserve so much respect and esteem just for being gay.

“Don’t you want Bill to be happy? Doesn’t he have that right?” a gay co-worker asked me at one point. His own partner was formerly married with two children.

“What about my right to be happy?” I countered. “He made me promises. Don’t I have a right to see those promises honored?”

“I’ve never thought about that,” he admitted.

Additionally, when we do share our stories on public media, we get attacked. Comment boxes are full of contemptuous responses: “Sour grapes,” are blamed for our dissent from the celebration of gayness. Misogyny is rampant: we can’t be rational creatures with legitimate, carefully-considered opinions; we can only be harridans seeking revenge.

At the same time, and often by the same people, our tragedy is used to promote gay marriage: “This is why we need gay marriage. If these men could have married, then none of these sob stories would have happened.” This is a false conclusion and an obfuscation of the truth.

The desire for a traditional family is a natural one. Marriage is a uniting of complementary opposites, beginning with the fundamental opposites of male and female. Gay “marriage” does not resolve the deeper wounds of same-sex-attraction and its impact on wives and children, but it does insult our unique identity – our inherent value as woman and as wife. It is also an affront to Christian morals and to natural law. For these reasons I do not recommend some of the online resources like the Straight Spouse Network – their support of gay marriage is counterintuitive to self-respect and healing.

Even worse, for many of us, is that the churches where we ought to find refuge and help are places that foster confusion and a false sense of guilt. My own church and pastor at the time of my initial discovery would have been most supportive and helpful had I had the clarity of mind to seek help. I’ve since converted to Catholicism, which recognizes that homosexuality is a grave impediment to a sacramentally valid marriage. But many in the evangelical and fundamentalist communities encounter a legalism founded on poor theology that employs guilt and coercion to wrongly assign responsibility rather than to support hurting spouses.

Some women decide to stay with their gay husbands, and, in my opinion, there are some very good reasons to stay, if that is agreeable to the spouses. I’m not sure it’s healthy, but there are extenuating circumstances which deserve respect. One woman I know has a disabling condition; her husband has chosen to remain married to her so his insurance is still available to help her in her illness, and their relationship is such that she has found that agreeable.


But we can’t win for losing. Even staying in the marriage, women face criticism. An article in the Huffington Post expresses great empathy for the gay husband’s sufferings in coming to terms with his attractions. But not a word does the article offer regarding the sufferings and the deep loneliness experienced by the woman married to him; in fact, the article tacitly blames wives for adding to the difficulties their husbands face, or for choosing to remain married to them even knowing the truth.


First of all, it’s not inevitable that the marriage will fall apart. Men who are willing to brave the hard work of reparative therapy – not “praying the gay away,” but a wholistic combination of recognized and respected therapeutic techniques – can find wholeness and a deep happiness in marriage. Of course, men who want to call it “trying” when they merely show up to cohabit at the same address are only fooling themselves. From my experience, Mr. Rymel gives the gay husband far too much credit, and his premise is insulting to us wives.

Moreover, husbands can manipulate us, too. Lying about his homosexuality, or about the nature of his relationships is common. And even when a man is straightforward with his wife, promises to work a program, promises to “be good” can fall apart when a man decides there’s no point any more and vacates the marriage. In such a case, a woman might well be justified to “call foul and take the martyr’s role.”


Besides, whether she stays or goes, or is left, a wife suffers. When the most intimate of her relationships is warped, when she is found fundamentally undesirable – again, in every dimension of relationship – she is wounded, and those wounds go deep and are hard to recover from. The memory of Bill’s recoil from ordinary gestures of affection lingers with me to the point I have feared resting my hand on my friend’s shoulder or forearm. I’m still deeply humiliated by the memory of his telling someone what a let-down he found our wedding night and the consummation of our marriage: “. . . disappointed . . . don’t know what all the fuss is about.”

But there is healing, and there is peace. It’s not an easy path, and there are too few resources for us. I found Wives’ Healing Journey enormously beneficial, but this is the only program I know of. While our gay husbands have public support, networking, and other venues available to help them transition into the gay community, there is almost nothing for the wives they left in pursuit of self-fulfillment. That must change. And I expect it’s going to have to change with us.

Being the ex-wife of a homosexual does not have to dominate our lives. It does not define who we are. But we must support one another, and our voices deserve to be respected.

Laura Lowder is a freelance writer who lives in the US. Her website is www.survivingtherainbow.com. Presently she is working with another ex-wife to develop a network for the support of other women and families affected by a loved one's homosexuality, transgenderism, and other related issues.

Laura Lowder, MercatorNet 14 Comments [6/16/2018 10:58:37 AM]
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