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Quote# 135990

The Trouble With Child Labor Laws

Let's say you want your computer fixed or your software explained. You can shell out big bucks to the Geek Squad, or you can ask — but you can't hire — a typical teenager, or even a preteen. Their experience with computers and the online world is vastly superior to that of most people over the age of 30. From the point of view of online technology, it is the young who rule. And yet they are professionally powerless: they are forbidden by law from earning wages from their expertise.

Might these folks have something to offer the workplace? And might the young benefit from a bit of early work experience, too? Perhaps — but we'll never know, thanks to antiquated federal, state, and local laws that make it a crime to hire a kid.

Pop culture accepts these laws as a normal part of national life, a means to forestall a Dickensian nightmare of sweat shops and the capitalist exploitation of children. It's time we rid ourselves of images of children tied to rug looms in the developing world. The kids I'm talking about are one of the most courted of all consumer sectors. Society wants them to consume, but law forbids them to produce.

You might be surprised to know that the laws against "child labor" do not date from the 18th century. Indeed, the national law against child labor didn't pass until the Great Depression — in 1938, with the Fair Labor Standards Act. It was the same law that gave us a minimum wage and defined what constitutes full-time and part-time work. It was a handy way to raise wages and lower the unemployment rate: simply define whole sectors of the potential workforce as unemployable.

By the time this legislation passed, however, it was mostly a symbol, a classic case of Washington chasing a trend in order to take credit for it. Youth labor was expected in the 17th and 18th centuries — even welcome, since remunerative work opportunities were newly present. But as prosperity grew with the advance of commerce, more kids left the workforce. By 1930, only 6.4 percent of kids between the ages of 10 and 15 were actually employed, and 3 out of 4 of those were in agriculture.1

In wealthier, urban, industrialized areas, child labor was largely gone, as more and more kids were being schooled. Cultural factors were important here, but the most important consideration was economic. More developed economies permit parents to "purchase" their children's education out of the family's surplus income — if only by foregoing what would otherwise be their earnings.

The law itself, then, forestalled no nightmare, nor did it impose one. In those days, there was rising confidence that education was the key to saving the youth of America. Stay in school, get a degree or two, and you would be fixed up for life. Of course, that was before academic standards slipped further and further, and schools themselves began to function as a national child-sitting service. Today, we are far more likely to recognize the contribution that disciplined work makes to the formation of character.

And yet we are stuck with these laws, which are incredibly complicated once you factor in all state and local variations. Kids under the age of 16 are forbidden to earn income in remunerative employment outside a family business. If dad is a blacksmith, you can learn to pound iron with the best of 'em. But if dad works for a law firm, you are out of luck.

From the outset, federal law made exceptions for kid movie stars and performers. Why? It probably has something to do with how Shirley Temple led box-office receipts from 1934–1938. She was one of the highest earning stars of the period.

If you are 14 or 15, you can ask your public school for a waiver and work a limited number of hours when school is not in session. And if you are in private school or home school, you must go ask your local Social Service Agency — not exactly the most welcoming bunch. The public school itself is also permitted to run work programs.

This point about approved labor is an interesting one, if you think about it. The government doesn't seem to mind so much if a kid spends all nonschool hours away from the home, family, and church, but it forbids them from engaging in private-sector work during the time when they would otherwise be in public schools drinking from the well of civic culture.

The legal exemption is also made for delivering newspapers, as if bicycles rather than cars were still the norm for this activity.

Here is another strange exemption: "youth working at home in the making of wreaths composed of natural holly, pine, cedar, or other evergreens (including the harvesting of the evergreens)." Perhaps the wreath lobby was more powerful during the Great Depression than in our own time?

Oh, and there is one final exemption, as incredible as this may be: federal law allows states to allow kids to work for a state or local government at any age, and there are no hourly restrictions. Virginia, for example, allows this.

The exceptions cut against the dominant theory of the laws that it is somehow evil to "commodify" the labor of kids. If it is wonderful to be a child movie star, congressional page, or home-based wreath maker, why it is wrong to be a teenage software fixer, a grocery bagger, or ice-cream scooper? It makes no sense.

Once you get past the exceptions, the bottom line is clear: full-time work in the private sector, for hours of their own choosing, is permitted only to those "children" who are 18 and older — by which time a child has already passed the age when he can be influenced toward a solid work ethic.

What is lost in the bargain? Kids no longer have the choice to work for money. Parents who believe that their children would benefit from the experience are at a loss. Consumers who would today benefit from our teens' technological knowhow have no commercial way to do so. They have been forcibly excluded from the matrix of exchange.

There is a social-cultural point, too. Employers will tell you that most kids coming out of college are radically unprepared for a regular job. It's not so much that they lack skills or that they can't be trained; it's that they don't understand what it means to serve others in a workplace setting. They resent being told what to do, tend not to follow through, and work by the clock instead of the task. In other words, they are not socialized into how the labor market works. Indeed, if we perceive a culture of sloth, irresponsibility, and entitlement among today's young, perhaps we ought to look here for a contributing factor.

The law is rarely questioned today. But it is a fact that child-labor laws didn't come about easily. It took more than a hundred years of wrangling.2The first advocates of keeping kids out of factories were women's labor unions, who didn't appreciate the low-wage competition. And true to form, labor unions have been reliable exclusionists ever since. Opposition did not consist of mining companies looking for cheap labor, but rather parents and clergy alarmed that a law against child labor would be a blow against freedom. They predicted that it would amount to the nationalization of children, which is to say that the government rather than the parents or the child would emerge as the final authority and locus of decision-making.

To give you a flavor of the opposition, consider this funny "Beatitude" read by Congressman Fritz G. Lanham of Texas on the US House floor in 1924, as a point of opposition to a child-labor ban then being considered:

Consider the Federal agent in the field; he toils not, nor does he spin; and yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his populous household was not arrayed with powers like one of these.

Children, obey your agents from Washington, for this is right.

Honor thy father and thy mother, for the Government has created them but a little lower than the Federal agent. Love, honor, and disobey them.

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, tell it to thy father and mother and let them do it.

Six days shalt thou do all thy rest, and on the seventh day thy parents shall rest with thee.

Go to the bureau officer, thou sluggard; consider his ways and be idle.

Toil, thou farmer's wife; thou shalt have no servant in thy house, nor let thy children help thee.

And all thy children shall be taught of the Federal agent, and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Thy children shall rise up and call the Federal agent blessed.


In every way, the opponents were right. Child-labor laws were and are a blow against the freedom to work and a boost in government authority over the family. The political class thinks nothing of legislating on behalf of "the children," as if they are the first owners of all kids. Child-labor laws were the first big step in this direction, and the rest follows. If the state can dictate to parents and kids the terms under which teens can be paid, there is essentially nothing they cannot control. There is no sense in arguing about the details of the law. The critical question concerns the locus of decision-making: family or state? Private markets or the public sector?

In so many ways, child-labor laws are an anachronism. There is no sense of speaking of exploitation as if this were the early years of the industrial revolution. Kids as young as 10 can surely contribute their labors in some tasks in ways that would help them come to grips with the relationship between work and reward. They will better learn to respect private forms of social authority outside the home. They will come to understand that some things are expected of them in life. And after they finish college and enter the workforce, it won't come as such a shock the first time they are asked to do something that may not be their first choice.

We know the glorious lessons that are imparted from productive work. What lesson do we impart with child-labor laws? We establish early on who is in charge: not individuals, not parents, but the state. We tell the youth that they are better off being mall rats than fruitful workers. We tell them that they have nothing to offer society until they are 18 or so. We convey the impression that work is a form of exploitation from which they must be protected. We drive a huge social wedge between parents and children and lead kids to believe that they have nothing to learn from their parents' experience. We rob them of what might otherwise be the most valuable early experiences of their young adulthood.

In the end, the most compelling case for getting rid of child-labor laws comes down to one central issue: the freedom to make a choice. Those who think young teens should do nothing but languish in classrooms in the day and play Wii at night will be no worse off. But those who see that remunerative work is great experience for everyone will cheer to see this antique regulation toppled. Maybe then the kids of America can put their computer skills to use doing more than playing World of Warcraft.

Jeffrey A. Tucker, Mises Institute 10 Comments [1/15/2018 5:51:51 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 135870

So this is what it's coming to: male sex dolls for women complete with 'bionic penises' - set to be on the market by 2019.

This is what happens when women rebel against God: they end up becoming silly, laden with sin and destroyed by their own unbridled sexual lusts. *2 Timothy 3:6

If your homegirl suddenly stops taking your calls next year, no longer wants to hang out and rarely ever leaves home - now you'll know why! She'll be too busy playing house with mechanical Ken to be bothered!

The proper term for this is digisexual. It's someone who gets off on having sex with mechanical things. Like those dildos and vibrators some of you keep in your dresser drawer or closet.

Since when did it become normal to rub a mechanical object on yourself for sexual pleasure?

This actually is nothing new. I wrote about the history of this in at least two of my ebooks: "Diva Goddess Queen" and talked about digisex in "Porn: When Pleasure Becomes Possession."

Dildos and sex dolls are simply modern twists on old concepts such as idols and fetishes. When you bring one of these items into your home you are in fact bringing idolatry into your home.

Idolatry is the worship of demon spirits hidden within statues and items that are designed to be replications of the actual real thing.

If you already own a dildo you are actively engaged in idolatry. And God will eventually judge idolatry with the sentence of eternal death.

That's why whenever you read a message like this one, don't harden your heart. This may be your last chance to get right with God before judgement falls on you.

Or you can choose to ignore and take your chances with the judgement of Almighty God.

Be sure to read my two ebooks:

?? Porn: When Pleasure Becomes Possession

?? Diva Goddess Queen: Breaking The Power of Soul Ties, Lust and Sexual Demons.

And get them before they are taken down at midnight and made unavailable. Most of all repent and get rid of those mechanical demon-houses you have hidden at home. Trash them and start taking your walk with Jesus Christ seriously.

Find a church that teaches sanctification and holiness and start attending regularly. You can't make it by yourself. The temptations will just be too strong for you.

If you don't find yourself a solid church home where sanctification is being taught, Satan will simply eat you for lunch. So GET IN CHURCH and STAY there! That's how you'll defeat the enemy in this hour

Mack Major, Facebook 31 Comments [1/10/2018 11:53:31 AM]
Fundie Index: 15
Submitted By: Yossarian Lives

Quote# 135981

You do know that the entire fucking “Mike Pence supports conversion therapy” thing is based on complete bullshit from the perpetually offended, such as yourself, right?



CNCCocoa, Know Your Meme 6 Comments [1/14/2018 11:50:38 PM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 135947

Unlike all these other philosophies, National Socialism has never been invented – it has been derived from the eternal Laws of Nature, which have existed as long as the universe and which have governed all life since the first primitive organism came into existence. This has been expressed beautifully and clearly by Savitri Devi, the famous late National Socialist philosopher, in her book The Lightning and the Sun:

“In its essence, the National Socialist idea exceeds not only Germany and our time, but the Aryan race and mankind itself and any epoch; it ultimately expresses that mysterious and unfailing wisdom according to which Nature lives and creates: the impersonal wisdom of the primeval forest and of the ocean depths and of the spheres in the dark fields of space; and it is Adolf Hitler’s glory not merely to have gone back to that divine wisdom, but to have made it the practical regeneration policy of world-wide scope”

In other words, National Socialism was not invented by Adolf Hitler. It is the conscious expression of the fundamental Laws of Nature governing our lives. It is based on an infinite love of the creation in all its diversity, a deep, unconditional respect for the wisdom of Nature, and an ardent will to preserve life as it has grown out of this wisdom. The only way to do so is to organize the society of man in accordance with these fundamental Laws. Thus being against National Socialism is just as absurd and illogical as it would be to oppose the law of gravity or the fact that the earth is round!

National Socialism is really nothing but the application of physical and biological laws to the political, economic, social, and religious areas of human life in the same way as they are today applied to technology. In this light, National Socialism is truly scientific – unlike any other world view. It does not wish to make reality fit any preconceived theories but to make the theories fit reality. New epoch-making scientific landmarks would thus immediately be reflected in the practical life of a National Socialist community.

w41n4m01n3n, RSTDT comments 12 Comments [1/14/2018 5:22:37 AM]
Fundie Index: 12
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 135984

Another Stupid Global Brainwashing Event: The No Pants Subway Ride

The No Pants Subway Ride is an annual event where people ride the subway while not wearing pants. The event is organized by Improv Everywhere, and has coordinators in cities around the world. Not unlike the Cyclonudist movement, the No Pant Subway Ride is a “Global Event” which tells a lot about who’s behind it… most probably some globalists interests financed by some leftist tycoon (like George Soros and his minions for example). Between you and I, this is a stupid idea… and a pretty dumb thing to do. You may ask yourself who in the world got the will and the ressources to organize a world-wide nudist event? You see what I mean? The answer is big business and big government. These are the forces who want to see you “pants down.

Bill Wallace, Political Correctness 11 Comments [1/15/2018 5:51:38 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: The Reptilian Jew

Quote# 135986

Capitalism: The Greatest Charity

When a politician talks of "reform," grab your wallet. As in "welfare reform," for example. For as any hardened inside-the-Beltway observer of dark Washington ways can tell you, "welfare reform" is typically a spin for tightening the screws on the taxpayer and easing welfare access.

To be sure, a welfare-to-work program launched in 1996 led to the national welfare caseload being cut in half as of 2000, thanks in part to an economic boom in those years. Now the Bush White House would fund the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program for fiscal year 2003 at $16.5 billion, using $300 million of those funds to promote marriage. Noble end, wrong means.

But such funds mainly address only the cash relief side of welfare while a host of other welfare programs go on, as in providing the poor today with "affordable housing." The bloated Welfare State remains, especially in its larger terms of giant programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

Noteworthy, then, is last March 8, when the US Labor Department reported that the February unemployment rate had edged down, and when the White House and Congress publicly agreed on a $51-billion Keynesian-based "stimulus" plan with a 13-week extension of unemployment benefits. But note that this extension pressures unemployment to edge up, reminding us that Uncle Sam rarely lets his right hand know what his left hand is doing.

Too, note how the once free-trade-talking-and-campaigning Bush team caved in on the issue of steel "dumping," arguing that steel is needed for national security, supposedly a very big consideration since 9/11. And so the White House wound up boosting tariffs on most steel products by 30 percent. The boost harms steel consumers such as buyers of cars and fridges and even the Defense Department, which will have to pay more for tanks and destroyers. But, hey, that's but collateral damage, as the White House baldly seeks such steel states as Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Ohio in the GOP column in the 2002 and 2004 elections.

Similarly, Mr. Bush brazenly told an audience of cattle ranchers that beef is a national security issue, as he and Congress plan to boost the annual "baseline" direct (apart from indirect) farm subsidies of $20 billion by another $25 billion over five years. So the farm states are also fair political game, even if the family food budget across the nation in turn gets to suffer collateral damage.

And speaking of the states, bear in mind that a lot of welfare programs come in the back door through federal grants-in-aid to state and localities at the rate of $300 billion a year. They usually require matching funds to participate in legal mischief by the federal and recipient governments.

What a way to run a railroad.

That scant backdrop on raw politics brings me to a remarkable 1956 essay, "The Greatest Economic Charity," by F.A. Harper, a contributor to the book, On Freedom and Free Enterprise: Essays in Honor of Ludwig von Mises. In it, Harper, who joined the Foundation for Economic Education in 1946 and founded his own think tank—the Institute for Humane Studies—in l963, quoted Moses Maimonides, 1135–1204, a Talmudic thinker of Spain, as follows: The noblest charity is to preclude a man from accepting charity, and the best alms are to show and enable a man to dispense with alms.

True economic charity, held Harper, has three iron requisites, each of which should be viewed in the light of so-called "welfare reform":

1. The charity needs a transfer of ownership from one individual to another of something having economic value. The donor must have clear title to the gift; it cannot be stolen goods or public goods. Private ownership, not public ownership, is needed at both sides of a charitable transfer or gift.

2. The transfer has to be voluntary with both parties. If it is forced from the giver or givers, it amounts to theft. If it is forced on the receiver or receivers, it is not charity but state interventionism, or what Frédéric Bastiat called "legal plunder," a blatant case of vote-buying and third-party payments using other people's money. (America's "free" public schools and Medicare qualify as cases in point.)

3. True charity requires anonymity. Harper conceded that this goal is tough to reach—as you gather from the various family names gracing the buildings on practically every private campus—but he still worried that devices other than anonymity "usually fail to prevent the creation of a personal obligation."

To Harper, such an obligation was a key no-no. He clung to Maim-onides's understanding of the noblest charity: That whatever cuts self-reliance and individual independence is ignoble and counterproductive. If the act is goaded by vainglory, by an ego trip, it is simply not charity, argued Harper. He cited the Biblical call that one who gives alms should not sound his trumpet before him "as do the hypocrites."

You can see where Harper was heading: to total welfare privatization, and more. He saw Ludwig von Mises as a charitable person more so than being an economist of world renown, for he gave mankind "his inspiring mind and spirit." Harper referred to the Mises spirit of freedom and free enterprise in contrast to the spirit of "dependency, insecurity, and slavery" as fostered, for example, by the policies of Jean-Jacques Rousseau in the French Revolution or of Karl Marx in the Russian and Chinese revolutions.

Said Harper of Mises's gift of his "inspiring mind and spirit" to mankind: "In my opinion, there can be no greater charity than this, for it endures beyond any material form of benevolence."

Harper was most concerned that state "charity" nowadays spells enslavement in one degree or another, that alms-giving or welfarism is "pernicious" (his word), that it embodies residual obligations which, in one way or another, become suspended in uncertainty forever. Worship of the state tends to follow, entrenching or deifying the welfare state at the ballot box by citizens unmindful of the zero-sum fact that government has nothing to give other than what it first takes away.

Welfarism's loss of self-reliance, of individual rights, is critical as well as immoral. Harper quoted St. Thomas Aquinas: "There is no security for us so long as we depend on the will of another man." He quoted Greek philosopher Plutarch: "The real destroyer of the liberties of any people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations, and largesses." So Harper maintained that self-reliance thus gets short shrift in welfare schemes from Rome's "bread and circuses" to Washington's "affordable housing" and "Social Security."

At this point, Harper made an amazing leap in logic and persuasion as to just what makes up our "greatest economic charity." He conceded that some won't buy into his use here of the term "charity," insisting on its earlier usage as an individual approach of brotherly love and compassion if ignoring its more modern usage as including alms-giving and, worse, welfarism or oxymoronic "public charity."

Nonetheless, Harper argued that those three critical criteria for true charity, including voluntarism, an-onymity, and a transfer of privately- owned things having economic worth, are best met in that Misesian system of freedom and free enterprise.

So Harper pointed out that a large part of the high level of prosperity enjoyed broadly in America arises from the widespread use of capitalism and, in particular, capital: i.e., in the growth and use of tools both in terms of plant, equipment, and high-tech, and of human skills and talents such as those in computer programming and truck driving or in medicine, engineering, and the arts.

The upshot of all this capital creation is America's outstanding output per worker compared to the rest of the world—output or productivity making possible America's high living standards, the highest of any major industrial nation in the world, thanks to enormous capital accumulation resulting in the highest wages and salaries, overall, in the industrial world.

What a joke on Marx. He christened capitalism with its telling name and unintended well-being for its sovereign consumers, while his system of communism empowered coercive government to rob consumers of goods, denying them both political and economic choice, while generously providing them with plenty of gulags for dissidents.

Now, asked Harper, who created this outpouring of highly productive capital tools? He answered his own question by simply alluding to legions of "invisible hand" savers and investors—those inadvertent charity providers with their delightful unplanned consequences of a freer and more prosperous society.

Even more remarkable in the Harper analysis is that, based on US government national income data, the return to capital owners is but about 15 percent in terms of dividends, interest, rents, and royalties together with their equivalents in owner-operated businesses, while the return to capital users is around 85 percent, including wages and salaries to employees and their equivalent to those self-employed.

Well, assuming the accuracy of those figures, how come the saver-investor gets less than one-sixth of what his saving and investing made possible? In response, Harper simply noted that the division is peacefully solved by the market, by private ownership and free exchange, by the "selfish owners," as those who save and invest are so often tarred, and who "are really the greatest charity-givers of all."

Harper admitted that a man who saves and invests is hardly without a personal incentive to do so, but he maintained that such a man is still mightily giving, serving his fellow man in building up the national stockpile of tools and thereby raising living standards for all.

What compounds the tragedy of the modern welfare state then is the widespread mirage of a free lunch, of a common failure to see how the growing burden of rising taxes drags down the outlook for savings and profitable investment. This drag, if unrelieved, would in time snuff out the drive to save and invest—killing off this vastly unknown and unappreciated bounty and charity arising from capital creation, from more and better tools. As F.A. Harper—in addressing, when you think about it, both the West and the Third World—concluded his profound essay:

"The greatest economic charity is that which enables persons to become independent of alms and therefore most self-reliant and secure under freedom. Only when that happens—when persons advance from the brink of starvation—is time released for devotion to things of the mind and spirit, which comprise the supremely great charity."

William H. Peterson, Mises Institute 3 Comments [1/15/2018 5:51:43 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 135942

I rather be an Incel than a cuck

Let's take a hypothetical situation into an account, where an used up cum dumpster approaches me and makes a proclamation of love towards me saying how it wants to date me and so forth. Now the question stands: would I date it or not? Well, truth be told, I would honestly reject the slut's offer in a heartbeat, without any regrets.

I absolutely refuse to date a femoid who has gotten railed by multiple men. A creature like that will never fucking be girlfriend/or wife material - and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking retard. Why do I say such a thing? Simple really, a cumrag who has engaged in rampant promiscuity for most of its life will never be able to stay in a stable monogamous relationship in the long run. The bitch will always have an insatiable desire for wanting to get dicked down by various other men. So knowing all that, why would I want to put myself into a position where I settle down with a slut knowing deep down that not only the bitch isn't really into me, but also would cuck me when the time comes? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Also, this "a cuck at least gets laid" argument need to fucking die. Yes, a low T cuck will be able to get laid once or twice a month, depending if he's lucky enough. But honestly, is it worth? Is getting laid once a month worth it knowing that your whore of a partner is fucking other men behind your back? Is getting laid once a month worth it knowing that your getting someone else's sloppy seconds? Is getting laid once a month worth it knowing that your skank of a partner is only providing you sex because you beg it from it? I think not.

Just because we are Incels that doesn't mean we have to low our standards to a point where we should settle down with a STD riddled bitch with no morals whatsoever. Just fuck that. Call me a fakecel or a volcel if you want, but I rather be an Incel for the rest of my life than date some disgusting, used up, cuntrag.

Lookismisreal, incel.life 18 Comments [1/13/2018 8:05:33 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep

Quote# 135927

The last resort
"Were you to glance up from the deserted beach below, you might mistake Tranquility Bay for a rather exclusive hotel.
...
Inside, 250 foreign children are locked up. Almost all are American, but though kept prisoner, they were not sent here by a court of law. Their parents paid to have them kidnapped and flown here against their will, to be incarcerated for up to three years, sometimes even longer. They will not be released until they are judged to be respectful, polite and obedient enough to rejoin their families.
...
Parents sign a legal contract with Tranquility Bay granting 49 per cent custody rights. It permits the Jamaican staff, whose qualifications are not required to exceed a high-school education, to use whatever physical force they feel necessary to control their child. The contract also waives Tranquility's liability for harm that should befall a child in its care.
...
Before sending their teen to Tranquility, parents are advised that it might be prudent to keep their plan a secret, and employ an approved escort service to break the news. The first most teenagers hear of Tranquility is therefore when they are woken from their beds at home at 4am by guards, who place them in a van, handcuffed if necessary, drive them to an airport and fly them to Jamaica. The child will not be allowed to speak to his or her parents for up to six months, or see them for up to a year.
...
Watched by chaperones, you read prescribed course books, take notes, then sit a test after each chapter. Two or three Jamaican teachers sit at the back of the room in case you get stuck, and they may be able to help. But to mark the tests, they have to use an answer key sent down from the States.
...
You may also write home to your parents, and though staff can read your mail, you may write what you like. But Tranquility's handbook for parents warns them not to believe anything that sounds like a 'manipulation', the programme's word for a complaint.
...
Tranquility is basically a private detention camp. But it differs in one important respect. When courts jail a juvenile, he has a fixed sentence and may think what he likes while serving it, whereas no child arrives at Tranquility with a release date. Students are judged ready to leave only when they have demonstrated a sincere belief that they deserved to be sent here, and that the programme has, in fact, saved their life. They must renounce their old self, espouse the programme's belief system, display gratitude for their salvation, and police fellow students who resist.
...
When most children first arrive they find it difficult to believe that they have no alternative but to submit. In shock, frightened and angry, many simply refuse to obey. This is when they discover the alternative. Guards take them (if necessary by force) to a small bare room and make them (again by force if necessary) lie flat on their face, arms by their sides, on the tiled floor. Watched by a guard, they must remain lying face down, forbidden to speak or move a muscle except for 10 minutes every hour, when they may sit up and stretch before resuming the position. Modest meals are brought to them, and at night they sleep on the floor of the corridor outside under electric light and the gaze of a guard. At dawn they resume the position."


That's enough quoting for one OP, but please, read the article. The second page describes the flimsy reasons that parents send their kids to this re-education camp, and the eerie, Stepford behavior of some of the "students".

It's not a school, it's a brainwashing facility. The "teachers" have more qualifications in torture than in education.

How can this possibly be legal? Parents would never be allowed to subject their kids to this here in the U.S., yet apparently they have no legal problem with sending their kids overseas to do it:




Rarely do I read a thread that makes me as nauseous as this one. Not because I'm disgusted with this post or that post but because the wounds are still fresh and painful.

However, I feel it is something of my duty to respond, fighting ignorance and all that.

I am one of those parents who have placed heir child in a 'boot-camp' type of home for troubled teens. This one was in the United States. (It never occurred to me to look outside of the U.S.A.)

For those of you who condem me or call me evil or assume I/m some kind of wierd, bible-thumping, frothing at the mouth loon, well, sorry, I'm not.

I agree that it could seem to be inhumane. I thank God that your home life/childhood/children was such that you are so far away from the anguish of this descision that you cannot imagine being here. Be grateful. (I am at work, so be patient)

When loving parents are faced with this it gets down to a "Sophie's choice" basically. For those who never saw the movie, Sophie was a WW2 Jewish woman who had to choose which child she would take with her to the Nazi work farm and which would be sent to the gas chamber. Horrifying. That's how it felt for his mother and me.

We sent our 15 year old son to that place in December of 2002 and I just came back from picking him up. He's been home for 14 days and whether it helped or not in the long run, well, it's just too early to tell. There is some improvement. He talks to us more readily and he's not lost his temper, yet. I think he's grown up a little.

I'll answer any questions that you may have on the mechanics of the process, the behavior that led us to that point and what we knew or didn't know. I will respectfully try to ignore any comments that assume I am a monster or that are merely insulting.

I am sure that your son was not kidnapped in the middle of the night and flown out of the country.

Actually, he was "kidnapped" in the middle of the night. The advice we recieved from all quarters was that this would be the best way to prevent violence or running away. It was done at 4:00 am and it was handled professionally and safely. It took about 90 seconds from start to finish. Then they drove to the airport. No cuffs.



You didn't read the article, did you? How do you come away with the impression that it doesn't involve physical and psychological abuse?

You bring up a good point. There is physical abuse. There is psychological abuse at these camps.

The problem has 3 reasons, I only speak from my experience.

1. The kids are usually not the best behaved bunch to begn with. They are the tough kids, the mean, nasty kids, the kids who get into fights and who's heroes are the thug-like rap singers and 'ganstas'. You have to be very firm and drill-sergent like in order to be in control or they'd be having chaos.

2. The people that work at these facilities are often just in it for the job. Especially in the south, where alot of these places are, the economy is not yet back on it's feet. If you've been in the military and you need to feed your family, this might not be such a hard way to make a living. Plus, these 'instructors' might be in danger of the prison guard/policeman burnout syndrome. The kind of thinking that has them saying to themselves, "Well, since these punks are all criminals anyway, I'll not feel bad about dishing out a few kicks or punches in the line of duty, they deserve it the little rats."

3. Money. If you staffed these places with trained professional counselors at every position, lots of testing and evaluation at every level. It would cost upwards of $5000.00 a month or more, then, only the rich could afford it. The poor people would have to muddle through as best they can. This is sort of what happens now. It was a real financial sacrifice for us to do this. I wondered if I would be better off renting him an aprtment and paying his utilities until he's 18. It would have been cheaper.

Bmalion, The Straightdope 7 Comments [1/14/2018 5:11:47 AM]
Fundie Index: 9

Quote# 135931

The question here is simple. What would you have done if you were in the same position as Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, where several of your daughters told you that their 15-year old brother had been openly touching them on the breasts and genital areas both when sleeping and awake?


I find it a bit odd that all these condemnations of the Duggars seem to completely ignore the fact that - as far as anyone can tell - the approach they took actually worked.

[FTR and FWIW, I'm pretty sure I would not report my kid to the police in a situation like this. I agree about watching him like a hawk, though.]

I'm not even sure I would take the victim kids for therapy. Besides for the fact that therapy in general is not necessarily effective, there's also a serious risk IMO that by doing so you would magnify the significance of the incidents in their minds and by this itself cause them all sorts of trauma that might be avoided if you used a lighter approach.

I would definitely speak to the kids about it and let them know if they were troubled by what had happened we could get help from professionals, but if they seemed fine with parental reassurance that they had nothing to feel bad about then I would probably leave them be.


You think this is a minor thing? A five year old gets molested and you think it's nothing?


No need to exaggerate here. I didn't say it was "nothing" and I can't think of a legitimate reason for you to pretend that I did.

What I do think is that a big portion of the trauma that abuse victims feel is the result of connotations created by society and culture, and to the extent that the matter is highlighted as a Terrible Thing it would tend to magnify that aspect. IMO. Feel free to disagree without pretending that I've said five year olds getting abused is "nothing".


Fotheringay-Phipps, The straight dope 5 Comments [1/14/2018 5:14:39 AM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 135935

How do you get a ball out of a ball unless it is a ball? You didn't start with supercontinent that broke apart, you started with ocean without a "supercontinent"! Please start from the "beginning"! Do you get it? You cannot start a ball without a ball! 'Splain me the ball without a stupid fucking' "supercontinent" non-ball! You can't! Because no one can 'slain a ball outside of a ball! Duh!

So, how do you 'splain this ball we live on which has always been a fuckin' ball right?!

You know that I love you right? I know that you love me! We're cool!

But, stupid is stupid! And "supercontinent" is stupid! It is stupid because it is not a ball!

Haipule, AtheistForums.org 15 Comments [1/14/2018 5:15:23 AM]
Fundie Index: 8
Submitted By: Stimbo

Quote# 135956

Leftist PC fascist regime? Please. If fascism ruled in Germany the Germans would be free, or almost free. I do not think the deciding factor is whether people know the truth or not. I think the deciding factor is necessity, that is necessity to act to not face immediate death through for example starvation.

If people would die within days or weeks if they do not take action, then most of them would do something. Knowing that their race and people will die out over a long time, is not enough for most people to take action. They need to be immediately threatened on a personal level.

SapereAude, Stormfront 8 Comments [1/14/2018 12:43:03 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 135943

(Note that this is intended to be satire)

U.S.—Sources from within the United States confirmed Friday that American society, while typically rejecting concepts like absolute truth and objective moral standards, is suddenly showing grave concern for the rise of fabricated news stories after a reported uptick in fake news during the recent election season and President Trump’s habit of using the term to describe many mainstream media outlets.

One Oregon man, who rejects the idea that humanity can even be sure the universe exists in any meaningful sense, was nonetheless disturbed by the idea that websites could publish completely false information, for anyone in the world to read.
“It’s just absolutely wrong, in my opinion,” said the man who doesn’t believe in absolute ideals of right and wrong at all. “What if someone reads the information and gets like, deceived? That just seems totally wicked.”
“It just doesn’t seem right that they can publish stuff that’s just blatantly not true,” added the man, who also noted his firm belief that everyone has the right to define their own version of truth.
Other Americans agreed, stating that the idea that shady news sites could get away with reporting completely inaccurate information was “disturbing” and “evil,” before stressing their belief that no one individual’s notions about morality are absolute or binding in any meaningful sense.
Tech conglomerates such as Facebook and Google have vowed to meet the trend head-on, assuring the public that they are taking bold steps to filter out any news that contradicts the version of truth that they decide is acceptable.

The Babylon Bee, The Babylon Bee 9 Comments [1/14/2018 5:18:21 AM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 22443

I can prove homosexual sex is a sin.

1) Any extra marital sex is a sin.
2) marriage is only between a man and a woman
3) ergo there is no such thing as a gay marriage
4) So without marriage all homosexual sex becomes extramarital.
5) ergo homosexual sex is a sin.]

Thank you Lord for giving him the wisdom to put it in this way....now no matter what anyone says, they can't twist your truth anymore without admitting there's sin involved....Lord you know I was getting so sick of the denial of Your Word, but there's no denying what You just said thru this brother. Thank You Jesus

Time4AChange, Christian Forums 31 Comments [3/24/2007 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: UberLutheran

Quote# 135946

So we white Americans are not real, but rather an “idea.” This what follows from saying that there is no American race. Real human beings have races, or at least nationalities, but we don’t, so we are not human beings.

So I guess my children and I are all figments of someone’s imagination. We exist conditionally, according to whether or not the idea of American includes us.

The hundreds of years that my ancestors lived on the fringe of civilization settling and building this “idea” count for nothing more than the whims of our new colonial masters.

From an objective viewpoint, one would have to come to the conclusion that a powerful faction is waging war against the American people.

Bill P, Unz 18 Comments [1/14/2018 5:20:58 AM]
Fundie Index: 5

Quote# 135948

[Comments under "Naked and humiliated woman cries out in rage and anguish as an older woman comforts her while a mob surround them during an anti-Jewish pogrom. Lvov, July 1st, 1941 [466x640]"]

@Johannes_P:
@SLB-ZZ:
@madrock75:
@SLB-ZZ:
@Panzerker:
@Johannes_P:
Unfortunately, given how the Soviet "judiciary" worked, the "SS volunteer who tortured and murdered Jews" and the "anti-Soviet dissident" got the same treatment, providing the former with the opportunity to join the latter.


they were being punished for working with the enemy, i dont think the soviets gave a rats ass about jewish suffering


Considering how many Jews were high ranking members of the govt in the USSR, think again.


Wouldn't be so sure considering how Stalin centralised decision making during the war in his own hands. He had anti-Semitic and highly violent tendencies that likely inured him to Jewish deaths, despite what Jewish aides/advisors like Kaganovich might have said.


Literal Nazi propaganda. Stalin led a campaign against anti semetism in the 30s, was in a party full of Jews, had a mentor who also led a campaign against anti semetism, and frequently spoken out about it.


Before or after firing most of the Jews in order to make a treaty with Nazi Germany?


From SLB-ZZ:

I know it's hip to believe literally anything and everything you read about Stalin, but as you and the other commentors have shown the truth is far from what is common knowledge.

Read on the actual words of Stalin and those around him on these issues, not revisionists from decades later who'd much rather see him discredited at any cost.

https://espressostalinist.com/2014/08/23/the-jewish-anti-fascist-committee-and-the-anti-jewish-plot/

https://espressostalinist.com/2014/08/24/the-doctors-plot/

SLB-ZZ, Reddit - r/HistoryPorn 2 Comments [1/14/2018 5:27:05 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: JeanP

Quote# 135958

A nation’s military are there to safeguard the nation’s people and their constitutional rights. Apparently environmentalists see things differently. They would cancel democracy, free speech, economic growth, and almost any other personal freedom, while invoking marshal law to support their pet fantasy of preventing human caused global warming even in the absence of any conclusive proof it is a threat.

It is important for voters to understand this mind set and ensure it does not gain traction. People should read or re-read 1984 by George Orwell if they want to understand the risks of letting this type of thinking turn into policy. Similarly a read of Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged which outlines her view of the erosive impact of this type of thinking that she saw first hand during the Soviet years might be educational.

Andy Pattullo, Watt's Up With That 10 Comments [1/14/2018 12:44:57 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 135959

Progressives get aroused with the thought of using force over the people, whether it be using Islamic Sharia or Military might. Either way they want complete control over the citizen/taxpayer.

Gregory, Watt's Up With That 11 Comments [1/14/2018 12:45:07 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 135965

I am 65 years old and have practiced Falun Gong for 14 years. I had a marvelous experience when I took up the practice. It gave me a second life. My elder sister learned Falun Gong first and introduced it to me. I was busy running a convenience store and did not learn it. My business was doing well. Customers praised my husband and me for being kind, easygoing, and considerate of others.

A neighboring store owner became jealous as a result. One day, my husband ran into a conflict with him while taking care of our store. When I learned of this, I ran to the store and argued with that store owner. He picked up a long sickle on one of my shelves and hacked at my thigh and waist. I fell down bleeding and was rushed to the hospital. I had a 5.7-inch long cut on my left thigh and a 3.3-inch cut to the nerve bundle near the bottom of my spine. I was transferred to Wuhan Hospital, which declined to accept me. I was transferred instead to Beijing 301 Hospital.

A doctor said to us after I was hospitalized there for 20 days, “We have tried our best. This type of nerve damage is incurable anywhere in the world.” He said it can cause lower back pain, muscle numbness, incontinence, and leg paralysis.

I was discharged and transferred to a local hospital for follow-up treatment. I met with a bricklayer who had a nerve injury from a work accident. He received several surgeries to have the nerve reconnected. His feet were deformed, curved and very thin. He was emaciated. He said his foreman could not fund his treatment. I felt miserable seeing that he had such severe consequences from only one nerve cut, while my injury was to the main nerve bundle. My elder sister came to see me and brought the book Zhuan Falun, the main text of Falun Gong. Soon after I read the book, all my pain disappeared, and I could walk again. I was in tears. The book saved me!

However, my husband forbade me from learning Falun Gong, fearing that I would be implicated in the Chinese Communist Party’s persecution of the practice. My sister took the book and gave it to others to read. I had pain throughout my whole body again, and my illnesses returned. My husband was scared. I said in a weak voice, “I have become like this because you won’t allow me to learn Falun Gong. Can you take care of me for the rest of my life? Can you suffer the pain for me? I have determined to learn Falun Gong. I must learn it.”

He saw my determination and asked my sister to bring the book back. I have now practiced Falun Gong for 14 years, and I end up in tears whenever I recall this experience.

Unknown author, Minghui 11 Comments [1/14/2018 12:47:29 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Katie

Quote# 135971



Transcript

greycloud: look at the age of first marriage and first child in the fastest growing populations. if you want your population to grow fast, you will have to get married and have kids when those people would. if your country delays getting married and having kids, than they are intentionally reducing their population growth. age of consent laws in western countries are part of white genocide.

EmbitteredManlet: Women have decided that reality doesn't apply to them, and being 35+ is the best time for children. Granted there are legions of St Single Mommies out there demanding some chump pay for their thug spawn because they can't figure out how to use birth control. The age of consent has nothing to do with it, women today are spreading their legs for refugees by 14 and snorting coke by the truckload when they are not in the tattoo parlor getting inked like a convict.

greycloud: http://www.ageofconsent.com/california.htm
scroll down to the "WHY SO MUCH ATTENTION TO STATUTORY RAPE?" section and read up. age of consent laws are about
reducing teenage pregnancy, which in turn reduces population growth. these laws are primarily enforced on white populations
hile minority populations are largely ignored. a white girl who sleeps with an older black convict will not run into problems, but if she was sleeping with a white professional worker, he would be thrown in prison. selective enforcement of the law, especially in urban cities is part of the eugenics anti -white agenda.

greycloud, EmbitteredManlet, Reddit 6 Comments [1/14/2018 3:25:46 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
Submitted By: The Reptilian Jew

Toxicology of Friendship Award

Quote# 135973



This is just idle morbid curiosity, not a real thing I've been told.

Say one night he confesses to you that he was waiting for a train late one night when there was only one other person at the station, and he got to wondering what it would be like to kill a man, so he strangled the guy and buried him in a shallow grave under the platform.

Other than that he's been a very good friend and you have no fear he'd randomly kill you, though he might kill again.

Would you turn him in?



Yes.

It would suck, but how could you not?


I don't know, but my friendships are less based on how decent my friends are as human beings, and more on how decent they are as friends to me.

I don't know what i would do, but I can see myself doing nothing.


Zorlon, Spacebattles 11 Comments [1/14/2018 3:26:34 PM]
Fundie Index: 2

Quote# 46498

(Thread: If you were President how would you start fixing the economy?)


(1) Press (1) for English is immediately banned. English is the official language; speak it or wait at the border until you can.

(2) We will immediately go into a two year isolationist posture to straighten out the country's attitude. NO imports, no exports.
We will use the 'Walmart' policy, 'If we ain't got it, you don't need it.'

(3) When imports are allowed, there will be a 100% import tax on it.

(4) All retired military personnel will be required to man one of our many observation towers on the southern border until Texas residents (not politicians) tell us the situation is under control. (six month tour)

(5) Social security will immediately return to its original state.
If you or your spouse didn't put nuttin in, you ain't gettin nuttin out. The president nor any other politician will not be able to touch it.

(6) Welfare - Checks will be handed out on Fridays at the end of the 40 hour school week and the successful completion of urinalysis and a passing grade.

(7) Professional Athletes --Steroids - The FIRST time you check positive you're banned for life.

(8) Crime - We will adopt the Turkish method, the first time you steal, you lose your right hand. There is no more life sentences.
If convicted, you will be put to death by the same method you chose for your victim; gun, knife, strangulation, etc.

(9) One export will be allowed; Wheat, The world needs to eat.
A bushel of wheat will be the exact price of a barrel of oil.

(10) All foreign aid using American taxpayer money will immediately cease, and the saved money will pay off the national debt and ultimately lower taxes. When disasters occur around the world, we'll ask the American people if they want to donate to a disaster fund, and each citizen can make the decision whether it's a worthy cause.

(11) The Pledge of Allegiance will be said every day at school and every day in Congress.

(12) The National Anthem will be played at all appropriate ceremonies, sporting events, outings, etc.

Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes but a vote for me or Maxine will get you better than what you have, and better than what you're gonna get.

funmudder, RaptureReady 79 Comments [9/2/2008 2:54:30 PM]
Fundie Index: 12

Quote# 135843

Turkish academic claims Prophet Noah used cell phone to call his son before flood


A Turkish academic claimed on Jan. 6 that the Prophet Noah called his son via cell phone shortly before the famous flood, the story of which is recounted in both the Quran and the Old Testament.

Speaking on state-run channel TRT 1 on Jan. 6, Yavuz Örnek, a lecturer at the Marine Sciences Faculty of Istanbul University, said Noah communicated with his son via cell phone as they were a long way from each other.

“There were huge 300 to 400-meter high waves and his [the Prophet Noah’s] son was many kilometers away. The Quran says Noah spoke with his son. But how did they manage to communicate? Was it a miracle? It could be. But we believe he communicated with his son via cell phone,” Örnek said.

He also claimed that Noah himself built the ship made of steel plates and this ship used nuclear energy.

“I am a scientist, I speak for science” Örnek added.

Yavuz Örnek, Hurriyet Daily News 30 Comments [1/9/2018 4:56:41 AM]
Fundie Index: 14
Submitted By: KingOfRhye

Quote# 117051

A. Franco, former Nuncio to Ukraine, committed crimes not only against morality but also against the Church and the nation. He usurped Church power by promoting Lubomyr Husar, who had been excommunicated for 17 years, to the post of Head of the Church in spite of a protest by three Metropolitans. Husar proclaims heresies, promotes homosexuality and is the founder of the Masonic group “The First of December” which has organized a coup against the legitimate government. The Church structure established by him is apostatical. He keeps the common believers in darkness and in heresy and leads them into temporal and eternal self-destruction.

It is publicly known that the whole Vatican is under God’s curse by reason of heresies denying the Divinity of Christ and by reason of pernicious syncretism which hundreds of thousands of martyrs fought against. The curse is on the Vatican also because of its approval of the abomination of homosexuality and paedophilia.

We propose that the Government of Ukraine should see to it that the current Nuncio is exiled for his participation in a coup. He was obliged to warn and admonish the representatives of the Roman and Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine not to organize a coup leading to a homodictatorship and autogenocide of Ukraine.

Apostolic Nunciature in Ukraine is harmful to the true Christian faith as well as to the nation, since it promotes heresies, syncretism, homosexuality and paedophilia. Therefore it must be abolished. We propose that the Secretariat of State should not wait until the Government of Ukraine justly exiles the Nuncio, abolishes the Nunciature and exposes the crimes committed. Remove the Nuncio Yourselves and abolish the Nunciature!

Synod UO GCC, Ukrainian orthodox Greek-Catholic Church 13 Comments [2/26/2016 4:13:33 PM]
Fundie Index: 9
Submitted By: TimeToTurn

Quote# 46158

[on what they would do if elected president]

Crime - We will adopt the Turkish method, the first time you steal, you lose your right hand. There is no more life sentences.
If convicted, you will be put to death by the same method you chose for your victim; gun, knife, strangulation, etc.

funmudder, Rapture Ready 69 Comments [8/29/2008 3:30:01 PM]
Fundie Index: 3

Quote# 22457

[compilation of three posts]

We were founded on a nation of being Christan. Not any other....their is only "ONE" GOD. Buddhists are idol worshipers.

See how much know about the Bible. Moses brought Gods 10 commandants for mankind to follow.Off the mountain in stone tablets. Not the first 10 Bill of Rights. Oh! yea your a atheist, have fun in the triblation. Next stop is HELL. This "IS" the end of the line and your stop.

GET SAVED

[...]

Answer "NO" to the above they are not freedom of religions.....only Christan nations are. If you go to any nation that is not...to practice the Christan you have to do it in secert...are risk be putting to death. Here in the US you can practice any faith you want. Just don't try to change our foundation this is "CHRISTAN".

EXCEPT JESUS AS YOUR SAVIOR

[...]

Well you expect him ...you most likely want ever see him death will come apron 1/4 of the people on earth still here. After the church is removed.

They don't worship that fat, potbelly little statue? Looks like they do to me. I don't study false religions, no need to.

Ranger_b, Military.com 45 Comments [3/24/2007 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 12
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