Quote# 120155

No, the Bible does not give two differing accounts of Judas’s death.The Bible critics say the following: “The Bible has mistakes. For
instance, one passage says that Judas hanged himself, and another
passage says that he fell and his guts burst out!” Bless their hearts,
there is nothing illogical about the narrative those
passages put forth. Is it not strange that Bible scoffers can speak the
truth and, blinded by Satan (2 Corinthians 4:3-4), still miss it
entirely? What they think is an error is actually truth in plain sight! Peter in Acts chapter 1, six weeks after Judas' death describes Judas, “falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.” If
we simply conflate Matthew’s account and Peter’s account, it makes
perfect sense. Judas hanged himself and then died. Later, the noose
broke and his body violently fell headfirst, spilling all of his guts on
the ground. There is no contradiction concerning Judas’ death. Judas died once, and
then, after death, his corpse was mangled. Judas died by hanging and
then his lifeless body fell from the noose (probably because of an
earthquake).

Joe, Christian News Network 23 Comments [7/1/2016 3:01:57 AM]
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Happy Atheist

He fell out of a noose headfirst? And his bowels fell out of his skull? That's one hell of an earthquake.

7/1/2016 3:16:26 AM

Malingspann

"Peter in Acts chapter 1, six weeks after Judas' death describes Judas, “falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”"

Does this mean Judas hanged himself and his dead body hung there for six weeks?

7/1/2016 3:31:14 AM

121

And what would it matter today? The only people who should ever have cared would be Judas and his immediate family and associates. Why not try living in the 21st century?

7/1/2016 3:31:42 AM

Kuno

Nope, doesn't work if you actually look at the text, and not only two single sentences. I had that discussion with our then-recent troll, PG13, back in 2013. And he at least put some effort into it, if still not very much.

It started in this thread: http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=94782

I wrote back then:

Quoted from PG-13’s link (just changed the formating to make it easier to read):

1. Apparent Contradiction Due to Lack of Understanding of the Culture

Matthew 27:5 says, [Judas] went away and hanged himself. Acts 1:18 says, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.

An apparent contradiction, but not an actual one. There are at least two possible explanations:

1) A natural explanation: Judas hanged himself over a cliff and the branch to which the rope was tied, or the rope itself, broke.

2) A cultural explanation, as quoted from Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum's Messianic Christology, Appendix 8, "The Death of Judas Iscariot," pp. 153-154: "Judas committed suicide [by hanging, NM] at the end of the first night of Passover, before the first day of Passover [the Jewish day begins and ends at sundown, NM] when the morning Passover sacrifice would be offered . . . . According to Jewish law, if there was a dead body in Jerusalem, then the city was to be considered defiled and the morning sacrifice could not be offered. However, Jewish law goes on to say that if the corpse is taken and cast into the Valley of Hinnom . . . then the city is cleansed and the Passover can be offered up . . . . When Judas hanged himself within the walls of Jerusalem, he caused the city to become defiled, thus preventing the morning sacrifice from proceeding . . . . Judas' body would have been taken and thrown over the wall into the Valley of Hinnom, thereby cleansing the city. The fall of Judas' body is what is being described in Acts 1:18."


That is the “tenable chronology”? Please take a look at the complete verses:

Acts 1:18

18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.

Matthew 27:5-7

5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, “It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.” 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter’s field as a burial place for foreigners.


1. Where does that cliff came from? In Acts he falls headlong at the field he bought. In Matthew he just “goes away and hangs himself”. Isn’t it a sin to add to scripture? I remember a verse from Revelation about it.

I could understand that the author of Matthew wouldn’t add the rope breaking and bursting open, as the cause of death is more important. But what excuse has the author of Acts? Did he just forget to add the fact that Judas hanged himself before falling down?

2 In Acts he buys the field, and within the same sentence he falls and burst open. And you (or rather Mr. Fruchtenbaum) expect us to believe that in the space of that semi-colon Judas hanged himself, was taken down, transported to the Valley of Hinnom and thrown down (not fell). Also note the use of “there he fell”, referring to the field.

And neither the author of Acts or Matthew bothered to write that up?

And even if one would accept one of these explanations, who bought the field? Did Judas buy it (like in Acts) or did the priests buy it (like in Matthew)?

And later I added:

Also, another thought to Mr. Fruchtenbaum’s chronology: He says that Judas’ body had to be thrown into the Valley of Hinnom a.k.a. Gehenna, but in Matthew 27:8 the bible says that the priest just bought that piece of land with Judas’ money and then started to use it as cemetery for foreigners. I see a small problem with the time line here, how can it be customary to throw bodies into that field if they only just bought it after he hanged himself?

7/1/2016 3:44:12 AM

Doubting Thomas

Except that the one version of the story says nothing about hanging himself, and the other version says nothing about him falling and his bowels bursting out. And in one story he threw the silver back into the temple, and in the other he bought the field he fell down in and burst open. I suppose there's no contradiction there, either?

And how does one fall out of a noose "headfirst?"

7/1/2016 5:34:54 AM

ChakatBlackstar

Objection! Speculative. There are no facts to support that theory.

7/1/2016 5:59:20 AM

Dr. Razark

There's no contradiction?

Did Judas return the money to the priests, who then used it to buy a field (Matthew 27)?
Or did Judas use the money himself to buy the field (Acts 1)?



@Mister Spak

Obvious, really. The tree was upside down.

7/1/2016 6:32:49 AM

Mister Spak

How could he fall headlong, if he was hanging by his neck? If the rope broke, he would fall footlong, not headlong.

Is it not strange that Bible humpers can blither idiocy and blinded by fairy tales and not notice it? What they think is truth in plain sight is actually FSTDT worthy!

7/1/2016 6:47:23 AM

Anon-e-moose

"Judas died by hanging and
then his lifeless body fell from the noose (probably because of an
earthquake)"

...or perhaps the tree was epileptic?! [/"Lost"]

7/1/2016 8:23:00 AM



Please, make up your mind

7/1/2016 9:05:01 AM

Kanna

Body fallen from a noose? Not too much of a stretch, although the bible says nothing to support that. But now it's "probably" from an earthquake? An EARTHQUAKE?? Now see how many lies you have to tell to support the lies of the bible. It just never ends, does it?

7/1/2016 10:35:35 AM

midnightcyn

Anon-e-moose:

Or it was a Whomping Willow, like in Harry Potter.

The thing is that a hanging body's weight would have caused the head to tear away at the noose after 6 weeks or whatever (and carrion-feeders would have taken care of it long before that.)

7/1/2016 10:47:35 AM

Lucilius

Translation: "Durr hurr, me can believe anything if turn off brain!"

7/1/2016 10:48:30 AM

PETF(People eating tasty fundies)

TMI!

7/1/2016 2:21:56 PM

John

Judas hanged himself and then died. Later, the noose broke and his body violently fell headfirst, spilling all of his guts on the ground.

The problem is that Acts says Judas was walking across the field when he fell headlong; not that he was hanging from a rope. Also, Jewish law would not have allowed Judas' hanged body to remain unburied after sunset of the same day. Plus the term "falling headlong" usually means one is traveling forward and trips; not that someone simply fell on their head.


7/1/2016 6:14:17 PM

Jerry

As always in the case of so-called "contradictions", the Christian only needs to look to the Christian Bible. Glory!

Acts 1:

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Indeed, the only thing Acts 1:18 says about Judas is that his body fell head down and bust open in the middle of a field that the locals then called "the field of blood". That doesn't contradict the account of him hanging, just says that he fell and body burst open. As it would if he hang himself and the body was hanging there rotting for days until it fell. Bible says so, Christians believe so. Praise the Lord!

In the name of the Lord,
Jerry

7/1/2016 7:00:50 PM

Jocasta McFucken

Jerry, that sounds like horseshit to me. Can you explain why?

7/1/2016 7:12:26 PM

Anon-e-moose

@Jerky

http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

Acts 1:18-19

Matthew 27:6-8

What are your thoughts on Pat Robertson's trade in diamonds from Congo, Jerko?

Proverbs 26:4 or Proverbs 26:5? But then - as he debated those Pharisees & answered their questions - your 'Lord' himself isn't a 'True Christian' by your own contradictory logic.

Therefore you must answer our questions to our satisfaction: and so what if you're so argumentally cornered that you have no alternative but to admit that we Atheists are right (as we always are & will be), or because of the paradox Proverbs 26:4/5 represents, you must fuck off and never return to FSTDT.

You use the QJV: authorised by the gay Queen James I, yet your homophobia is well known here. The ultimate contradiction.

7/1/2016 9:35:32 PM

the_ignored

Jerry said:

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Indeed, the only thing Acts 1:18 says about Judas is that his body fell head down and bust open in the middle of a field that the locals then called "the field of blood". That doesn't contradict the account of him hanging, just says that he fell and body burst open. As it would if he hang himself and the body was hanging there rotting for days until it fell. Bible says so, Christians believe so. Praise the Lord!

No, Jerry. It does contradict. Have you not read anything here?

Look at what you said: That doesn't contradict the account of him hanging, just says that he fell and body burst open. As it would if he hang himself and the body was hanging there rotting for days until it fell. Bible says so, Christians believe so.

No. If he hung himself and his body fell after rotting, he would fall feet first or ass first, NOT head first!

There are two different kinds of death here. One is he hung himself, the other is him taking a spill headfirst. Doing a dive onto rocks or something from a running start or something.

No cliff or earthquake mentioned. How could one version miss such a detail in the first place?



Also as has been mentioned before: Acts 1:18 had Judas buy the field while Matthew 27:5-7 had Judas give the priests' betrayal money back to them, and they bought the field. Judas didn't even tell them to buy the field.



Even if they bought it in his name, Judas is not the one who bought the field in that version.


Do you even think at all, or are you just trolling us?

7/1/2016 11:04:10 PM

Jerry

ignored:

Bible says that Judas hung himself and that his body fell head first and burst open with guts falling out. Bible says so, we believe so. We don't need to invent any special explanations here. Bible says so, we believe so. Bible does not say he was walking and fell off a cliff. It does not say he tripped and somehow fell head first so that his whole body burst open. In fact, it doesn't give us much detail, only few dry facts. The Christian accepts these.

Regarding purchase of the field, it doesn't say he bought it with his money. It says he bought it with reward of iniquity. This does not contradict the Matthean verses that refer to this incident, merely states that he bought himself a place in that field. Romans 6:23 says, "for the wages of sin is death".

In the name of the Lord,
Jerry

7/2/2016 5:38:34 AM

Phil O'Macedon

Everyone stay calm! What you're thinking after reading the OP is not correct. It's called apologetics, not absolute bullshit, please remember that!

7/2/2016 5:56:28 PM

Anon-e-moose

@Jerky

Well, your BuyBull contradicts itself.

You cannot spell 'Belief' without the word LIE.

There's an extremely good reason why your 'Christian Bible' isn't admissable as evidence in a court of law: Kitzmiller vs. Dover proved that.

But then, can you prove anything in your 'Christian Bible' actually happened?

KvD's presiding Judge, John E. Jones III said otherwise. He said it, Michael Behe & co. had to accept it. So do you. Romans 13:1-5 says you have to.

You may proceed to say to Judge Jones' face that he's wrong. As if something as serious as Perjury laws would stop you, amirite? Well: is he wrong? If you don't answer that simple question, then we can take it as read that your answer is 'No'.

And therefore the Bible contradicts itself, ergo it, your 'God' and you are wrong.

Too scared to contradict we Atheists here in FSTDT? Because if you don't, we'll therefore take it as read that you agree that we're right.

Remember: if your 'Lord' debated with - and answered the questions of - those Pharisees, thus he's not a 'Real Christian' as per your contradictory logic, then what's your excuse for not doing the same with the rest of us?

Because if you're doing so with the_ignored, then you're not a 'Real Christian'; you say so, we accept so.

You haven't got the balls to propely debate us. Your 'Lord' did with those Pharisees, though, so what does that say about you, Jerkoid?

7/2/2016 6:36:31 PM

Admiral Nopants

"Later, the noose
broke and his body violently fell headfirst, spilling all of his guts on "


Hey. If you can actually believe all the stupid, nonsensical horse shit leading up to this part, what's one more denial of reality?


@Jerry
"Bible says that Judas hung himself and that his body fell head first and burst open with guts falling out. Bible says so, we believe so. We don't need to invent any special explanations here.'

But that's what you're doing right now. It doesn't reconcile the contradictory accounts. You do that.

7/3/2016 10:24:17 AM

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