Anton Bruckner #fundie puritanboard.com

I think the question of Ordaining versus Permitting is dependent on if we believe God owes mankind something or not.

The Ordaining people which I am a part of assumes that God owes mankind nothing, hence He can harden Pharoah and get him to do specific wicked acts by which God will glorify Himself by conquering. It is because God owes mankind nothing, that He could sent Lying Spirits in the mouths of prophets to deceive Ahab, likewise He can also send strong delusions that they may believe a lie. He can likewise speak in parables to shield the truth from then, least they be converted and their sins forgiven.

Permitting believes that God owes mankind something. This something that is owed, is to behave like a man and constrain oneself to the laws and ethics of which man are subjected to. Because mankind is not allowed to sin and is judged because of sin, many assume that God ordaining sin for His own purposes is like man sinning. So they take away the ordaining, and say that God permits sin, which is nothing more than a passive quasi ordination being made allowable by a loop hole.

Heck, but this thing is much more simple, if it is God's goal to manifest and to glorify Himself by exercizing His diverse attributes, of which one of these attributes is Justice, then it follows that God must make something liable for justice. Now if God makes something liable for His justice and executes His justice, how is that sin???????????????? "Endured with much patience the vessels fitted for destruction". God making something liable for such and such, and executing what that thing is liable for in no way impugns God.

People usually believe the permitting thingie because God becomes much more scary if He is an ordainer of all events, and that all events that He ordains are ordained for the sole purpose of glorifying Himself.

But a Scary God is a good thing for humans :D A Scary God puts them in their place and emasculates them, humbles them, and make them tremble, pricks there conscience and let them feel powerless.

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