I am so very grateful that the Lord who is sovereign over all led Columbus to accidentally discover this land. Providentally the European diseases he inadvertantly brought with him served to weaken the numbers of the savages that they were not able to overcome the various European groups that came across the ocean. I am particularly grateful for men like Cortez who liberated countless numbers of the poor wretches from the vile Aztecs. Likewise, Pizarro was God's instrument against the Incas.
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I don't often hit the WTF button as soon as I read a post, but I did so with this one. It's certainly a twofer, possibly even a trifecta. Either way this is certainly a vile mindset. There is only one comment I can make:
Proudly marching into the 16th century!
I was initially inclined to call Poe on this, but then I read the source thread, which even MORE disgusting than the quote. They literally believe that such massive genocide was justified because it brought "the Gospel" to a new continent. Rage does not even begin to describe my reaction.
Once again the use of Aztec human sacrifice to justify the conquest. It is oh so trite and oh so boring. Of course what happened to those "liberated" after the conquest was not plesant. What with stunning depopulation by disease, forced labour and the systematic year zero like attack on Indian culture + civilization. In otherwords the death of a civilization. I don't find this episode, like all great human tragedy's wonderful. I wonder if our writer has even a glimmer of real knowlwdge of the depths of the disaster that hit the Indians of Mesoamerica and Peru.
I note here that the natives of Hispanola (Haiti and the Dominican Republic), "benefited" from the Spanish conquest by being completely whipped out in less than a century aftert Columbus. But thats OK they were babtised first.(sic).
It still amazes me that there are still people that think like this.
I wonder if he would have any self-awareness at his situation if he were to find himself as a member of a group beset by technologically-superior invaders, therefore being the “savage” relative to said invaders.
What a disturbing thought process.
"Sure people are dead, but that's okay because the Lord ok'd it first!."
He conveniently left out the Holocaust and other disturbing acts of genocide that were a radical spin on Christianity.
Also, I just read the thread.
@Extraintrovert: Actually, it seems like only a few of the guys there believe that. The others seem more reasonable. Remember, just because a site has several raving fundies in it, doesn't mean the site is ENTIRELY composed of raving fundies.
Fucking hell, one of the people there has a Half-Life 2 avatar.
Joseph Sabia, is that you?
In case, this sounds much more like RSTDT. Just because it mentions God does not make it automatically FSTDT; many RSTDT quotes mention God and no one would deny that that is a better category for them.
Now that that's out of the way...
SolaScriptura, you're a sick, horrible person. As if we didn't need any more proof that religion does not see anything inherently wrong with genocide. So, since you seem to believe that because the indigenous inhabitatants of the Americas were not Christian, it was acceptable for Christians to slaughter them, what do you think about the Holocaust? It was done to cleanse non-Christians from the face of the Earth. If you believe it was acceptable, then that makes you a Complete Monster, and if you are against it, then you've just destroyed your argument that the genocide of the Native Americans was acceptable. It is my hope that your education on the Age of Exploration was extremely whitewashed to remove all mention of the atrocities committed by Europeans, and then if you learned the truth you would recant this statement, but who am I kidding?
Proof positive that Bible God is a spreader of illness and disease. Sickest of all are His own demented followers who, infected by Bible God the malevolent plague giver, knowingly and gladly hasten the distribution of Bible God's unwholesome contagions so they may blight the lives of all others as quickly and as thoroughly as possible.
Poe? i sure as hell hope so. if not that's several counts of history fail and blatant idiocy. also, BOWBEFOREMYBLOODGOD!!! BOW!!!
its hard to resist the impulse to slap someone who says they are thankful for morons wiping out entire cultures. seriously wtf?!
"I am so very grateful that the Lord who is sovereign over all led Columbus to accidentally discover this land."
Two words: Leif Ericson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leif_Ericson
South America was discovered by his Finnish brother Leif Nokia. Korea was discovered by his brothers Leif Samsung and Leif LG. Japan was discovered by his brother Leif Sony.
Ai thenk yaw! X3
Technically, Cortez did "liberate countless numbers of the poor wretches from the vile Aztecs". Aztecs were not exactly liked by their neighbors - constant warfare and subjugation tend to ruin one's diplomatic relationships.
Granted, the only kind of liberation Cortez was interested in was Aztecs' gold from its owners, but that's another story.
@Pacal: Actually, the Taíno were not entirely wiped out. Recent genetic research shows that 15% of people in the Dominican Republic have Taíno blood . Many of them were killed off - the rest fled or intermarried. (I've even got a scosche of Taíno blood buried in all that Spanish - like 1/256, but it's there, dammit.)
Oh, and this post is a giant pile of imperialist dogmatic crap, and OP is a horrible person and should die while being conquered by a more advanced civilization. (Klingons?)
"And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that, with it, Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits in Thy mercy.' And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu--"
"Skip a bit, Brother."
"And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."
People like this don't even count as human beings. Apparently, rape, torture, and mass murder of men, women, and children is fine as long as it's done for Christ's glory and used to brainwash people into the Jewish Sky Zombie Cult.
I don't really have anything against Columbus except that he never figured out that he hadn't found a new route to India, however, Cortez and Pizarro were little more than power-hungry looters. Your God sure picks lousy instruments.
"I am particularly grateful for men like Cortez who liberated countless numbers of the poor wretches from the vile Aztecs"
The only things Cortez "liberated" the natives from was their gold and their lives.
I have heard something about Cortez actually WANTING to let the Aztecs maintain SOMETHING of their old power structure. Of course, I get the feeling the plan was more long the lines of the Persian satrap system. Some promise of liberation ("All you rid us of was Moctezuma?!").
Not that Columbus was much fun, either. Between his refusal to accept the actual circumference of the world, his refusal to accept that the Taino didn't have all that much gold, and his refusal to accept that he wasn't anywhere near the Indies...Get the feeling he had no idea how to take "no" for an answer?
I was all set to call Poe on this one, but further investigation reveals him to be pure, grade A, unadulterated stupid.
Fuck him and the genocidal god he rode in on.
You want to know what the REAL hilarity is here? The Catholics (which the Spaniards, Portuguese, etc, were at the time) would have HATED the Puritans with a passion and would have annihilated them like they did the Native Americans. Maybe they'd have been even more cruel about it (though slow-roasting people like sides of beef and chopping off their hands is already pretty damn cruel) since the Protestants were 'heretics'.
And he's posting this on a 'Puritan' message board. LOL
I always found it hilarious how American conservative evangelicals defend the Catholic church when it comes to the conquest of America, but then turn around and condemn that same church when the religious wars started in Europe.
Hey, let's ignore that the reason why anyone even tried to cross the atlantic was because a certain dude "fixed" some maps to show that china was about a few thousand nautical miles closer, that immune systems tend to go awry when you introduce a new highly deadly disease to them and that Cortez and Pizarro were pretty much motivated by Gold, Silver and Land. After all, it's not genocide if you bring a few token missionaries with you.
*looks at the message board* I didn't know that they had the Internet in the 1600s.
"I don't really have anything against Columbus except that he never figured out that he hadn't found a new route to India, however, Cortez and Pizarro were little more than power-hungry looters. Your God sure picks lousy instruments."
Columbus was just as vile as Cortez and Pizarro. He just had better publicity than the other two.
Consider the story of Thanksgiving:
The first pilgrims had no food or shelter and had no chance of surviving the winter when the Native Americans shared their harvest with them. For their act of kindness their grandchildren were driven from their homes, butchered by the thousands and forced to relocate to almost uninhabitable regions to eke out a living out of the barren lands.
Nowadays, Thanksgiving is observed by thanking a deity (God) rather than decent people; celebrating plenty rather than the benevolent generosity of sharing limited resources.
SolaScriptura's views represents the culmination of a 300 year trend; currently, they're more mainstream than extremist.
@ Gadfly:
"I always found it hilarious how American conservative evangelicals defend the Catholic church when it comes to the conquest of America, but then turn around and condemn that same church when the religious wars started in Europe."
You know, I always wondered that too. I suppose it's understandable when people like Rush Limbaugh do it, since the GOP cannot claim to be anti-Catholic as they have a lot of Catholics in their ranks, but the people on this board consider themselves Puritans, and are thus the type who do not consider Roman Catholics to be Christians. (Their opinions on Eastern Catholics are unknown, though it's doubtful that they are even aware they exist.) In fact, one of the board members even pointed this out. You would think that the people on that board would be playing up the atrocities committed by the Catholic Spaniards to the hilt; after all, that's what their Puritan ancestors (who were contemporary with the conquistadores) did in an attempt to make the Catholic Church look bad. They call it the Black Legend for a reason. So the fact that these fundies are instead adopting the White Legend is beyond my comprehension.
I'm just going to say this because I've always thought it: monotheism has only served to neuter our population. Those who were once proud and able to interact with others in a normal way now are self-deprecating and constantly casting judgement on others.
Just like those you idolize, Sola, you can go fuck yourself
So, as usual, your "all-powerful" deity, who literally spoke reality into existence , needs weak, limited humans to do his work for him.
Fascinating, that.
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Right. And I suppose they were "savages" for having the audacity to try to protect themselves from white people, right?
White people were the savages first.
should we thank good too for the years in which the Arabs occupied Spain, the religious wars and the plagues that, in one way or another, provoked "accidentally" all that?. Why not "appearing" to the savages and end of the tape?. Moreover, why all that in the first place?
So, according him, the people of India are still savages for not submitting to European/Christian people? I dare you, <b>I FUCKING DOUBLE-DARE YOU</b> to say it to the Indians.
Just don't hold me responsible for your murder.
Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do not do that thing.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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