dload #fundie

dload #fundie answers.yahoo.com

Evolution can be split into two: Evolution Theory and Micro-evolution.

One of those is entirely faith based, which even started via a hoax - it's far from sciences.

[snip]

Human DNA/Chromosomes is more related to the tobacco plant over ape/chimp. If we are allowed to "continue evolving" we may someday be tobacco plants, or even better maybe even the ultimate life form, a fern with 480 chromosomes!

If Evolution is real, we would be actually be de-evolving at a slow rate? Natural selection would just be slowing down this rate. According to the Evolution Theory (and Hoax from which it started) we where originally ape like creatures, we de-evolved into humans - losing most our ability to grip with feet, our tail for support and extra hold, becoming slower, lazier, fatter, defenseless creatures compared to the apes which happen to still be around?

The evolution theory was created for fame and greed starting off as a hoax. Any one with a slight education and half a brain cell can see that - sorry, Evolutionist Ape-Man followers, go back to watching your "Planet of the Apes" movies.

Micro-evolution however has some facts/research behind it, this however is just the fact that a creature can ADAPT and change to it's environment. This is the good researched side of evolution which starts to make logical sense, however we currently know: DNA mutations cause more damage that good. The only differences is the religous believe the DNA is already encoded and it is simply toggled to adapt.

This however supports religion even more... so they must still follow the hoax of the apeman, it's their faith to consider themselves a monkey without purpose in life.

63 comments

old comment by Horsefeathers

"Evolution can be split into two: Evolution Theory and Micro-evolution."

Which, I'm sure you can explain, isn't an entirely arbitrary division to keep your delusions from completely imploding in the face of reality, right?

"One of those is entirely faith based, which even started via a hoax - it's far from sciences."

They're both, ultimately, the same fucking thing, you moron.

"Human DNA/Chromosomes is more related to the tobacco plant over ape/chimp."

Find whatever idiot told you this and smack them. Hard.

"If we are allowed to "continue evolving" we may someday be tobacco plants, or even better maybe even the ultimate life form, a fern with 480 chromosomes!"

Number of chromosomes =/= evolutionarily "advanced".

"If Evolution is real, we would be actually be de-evolving at a slow rate?"

There is no such thing as "de-evolving".

"According to the Evolution Theory (and Hoax from which it started) we where originally ape like creatures, we de-evolved into humans"

Uh, no.

"Micro-evolution however has some facts/research behind it, this however is just the fact that a creature can ADAPT and change to it's environment."

So, where did these facts come from if not from the same people who study evolution and tell you it's actually true?

old comment by Swede

Humans ARE great apes, stupid. We are more closely related to chimps and bonobos, than chimps are to gorillas.

Evolution has no goal or direction, it's just adaptation to a changing environment, through random mutations and natural selection, so there are no de-evolving nor ultimate forms. It's all about features working good enough here and now.

Mr Darwin and others who came up with the ToE at about the same time were initially laughed at, called names and ostracized from scientific societies. How is that "fame and greed"?

Micro-evolution + millions of years = macro-evolution.
There is no adaptation without DNA mutations, stupid.

We are intelligent apes (not monkeys) who can formulate our own purpose in live. For some, it's groveling before some imaginary deity, for others, it's to improve the living condition for billions of people. Isn't it kinda selfish to have the sole purpose of scoring heaven-points for yourself with some petulant deity?

old comment by AbsurdONE

Well, actually, humans have far more in common with chimps and bonobos than any other species, so you're wrong there. Certain genes are present in all eukaryotes, and therefore we do share a large portion of our genome with tobacco, but that's true for any eukaryote.

There's furthermore no such thing as "devolution". Populations change according to changing circumstances. (Mind you, populations, not individuals change; you're absolutely wrong when you say a creature adapts to its environment that's Lamarckian evolution, which has been thoroughly debunked. An individual is either suited for its environment, or its not, and those that aren't tend to be culled before reproducing, leaving the beter-suited individuals to carry on and spread their genes, and so a population of diverse individuals will change by that mechanism.) Anatomical structures change function, needless features are lost, and new features develop. It's rather not unlike the work an engineer would do, only evolution is steered by blind trial and error with a staggering number of iterations rather than some intelligent intent.

It should also be noted that if random mutation never introduced a quality that would later prove critical for survival, that species is likely doomed to extinction. Random mutation isn't evolution, but it is the raw material that evolution works off of. Even mutations that prove harmful now can eventually save a population in a different set of circumstances.

old comment by AbsurdONE

Continued:

Here's an example: Suppose you have a species of red lizards living on hard red soil, reasonably well-camoflauged from birds. The few black or green lizards that are born are quick to be eaten. One day, a volcano blows its top and covers the region with large patches of glassy black ash. Well, you can expect that those black lizards that were easy prey will very quickly proliferate, as their coloration now provides better protection than the red lizards.

But wait! The rich volcanic ash spurs prolific vegetation, and then the green lizards become the ones that are most fit, and evolution then whips around in a different direction. Now that the environment is changed again, that population of now-green lizards is going to have to cope with a radically different environment, so you can expect lizards that can scurry up plants better than clawing through hard, red dirt. That requires a different body shape and a different kind of claw.

Add up these little changes for a long time, and you'll have a population that diverged far enough from other lizards living on red dirt that you now have two different species existing in different circumstances.

And let's say millennia later, a permanent drought causes that lushly vegetated region to wither away and become a patchy savannah. Well, those green plant-dwelling lizards will eventually give way to lizards that can live in a dry, brown, and dusty landscape, far removed from from the reddish clay beds of their ancestral (and likely still living elsewhere) species of red lizard. By this point, it's doubtful they can even reproduce with those original red lizards, so you creationists can't even call them the same "kind" of animal.

old comment by AbsurdONE

Continued:

In the case of modern humans, our feet lost opposable thumbs, but gained a very sturdy and stable base for standing upright, as well as a very sophisticated shock absorbing mechanism enabling us to run extraordinarily long distance (believe it or not, humans have more going for them than just intelligence and dexterity). Losses in raw muscle power furthermore opened the door for both more enduring muscles, further enhancing our ability as endurance runners, and bigger brain cases, further improving our intelligence. Toss in a more spring-like spine for better upright locomotion and heavy perspiration for efficient cooling, and what we as a species ended up becoming is an upright ape that could chase our hunt for many miles until it finally keeled over in exhaustion.

Our ability to move long distances at a time, and our raw intelligence granted us unprecedented versatility that enabled us to spread around the entire world, from the arctic to the tropics, as well as develop tools made from other tools, and continue that tool-making process until we've reached industrialization and eventually computers and spaceflight.

old comment by AbsurdONE

Continued:

The point to take away is that every evolutionary tradeoff has a purpose that improves the survivability of a population in which it appeared. There is no devolution, only changing circumstances and a population's ability to cope with a change in the frequency of gene expression.

And for the record, evolutionary theory has tangible practical uses. As computers get cheaper and powerful, simulations of Darwinian selection are being developed to solve more and more practical engineering problems. (Hell, there's even a nifty project that generated music out of noise simply by having random people select sequence sequence sounds more appealing out of a pool of mutant sequences; the fitness function in this case was musicality and appeal to popular tastes.) It won't be long before entire useful machines can evolve to meet a set of functional parameters.

old comment by Papabear

"Human DNA/Chromosomes is more related to the tobacco plant over ape/chimp."

And you know this because a little "micro-evolved" bird told you?

" If we are allowed to "continue evolving" we may someday be tobacco plants, or even better maybe even the ultimate life form, a fern with 480 chromosomes!"

Had you not skipped or slept through biology class, you would know there is more to the question than simply the number of chromosomes.

"If Evolution is real, we would be actually be de-evolving at a slow rate?"

No.

"Natural selection would just be slowing down this rate."

Oh, I give up. One shouldn't try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes one's time and it just annoys the pig.

old comment by Karana

"Evolution can be split into two: Evolution Theory and Micro-evolution."
- No. You just made that up. Evolution is Evolution.
"One of those is entirely faith based, which even started via a hoax - it's far from sciences."
-No. Lack of evidence(aka faith based) isn't something science does. I don't even know what hoax you're speaking of but it's probably Piltdown man or something equally retarded that no one cares about and has no bearing on evolution what-so-ever.
"Human DNA/Chromosomes is more related to the tobacco plant over ape/chimp. If we are allowed to "continue evolving" we may someday be tobacco plants.."
-Gah! No! This is an outright lie. Lying for Jesus are you?
"If Evolution is real, we would be actually be de-evolving at a slow rate? Natural selection would just be slowing down this rate."
-Um, no.There is no equal rate of evolution. It happens to every living thing all the time. Yes, there can be speciation events and things that can hurry that along I guess, but it's not like it's a decaying thing that gets 'less' over time or something. And wtf is 'de-evolving'? Evolution doesn't have a goal. It just occurs.
"According to the Evolution Theory (and Hoax from which it started) we where originally ape like creatures, we de-evolved into humans - losing most our ability to grip with feet,...."
-No. This concept of 'de-evolving' doesn't exist. Certain traits were lost, others were gained. Why is this concept difficult to understand? Why do you insist on making shit up?

old comment by Karana

"The evolution theory was created for fame and greed starting off as a hoax. Any one with a slight education and half a brain cell can see ..."
-Ad hominem argument. You lose.
"Micro-evolution however has some facts/research behind it, this however is just the fact that a creature can ADAPT and change to it's environment. This is the good researched side of evolution which starts to make logical sense, however we currently know: DNA mutations cause more damage that good."
-No. Actually most mutations are neutral in effect. Your complete ignorance to genetics is showing.
"This however supports religion even more... so they must still follow the hoax of the apeman, it's their faith to consider themselves a monkey without purpose in life."
-What? What does evolution and DNA have to do with religion? Everyone only has the purpose in life that they/we give it.
Your magical sky pixie is not the ruler of a universe created solely for you. Arrogant much?