Raymond #fundie #homophobia

Raymond #fundie #homophobia politicaloutcast.com

Christians are being silenced all across America: in the political debate, the public square, the schools, the workplace, and even in the sanctuary of their own churches. Read these signs of the times:

? Christians threatened with prison for protesting the homosexual agenda.

? Employees of Fortune 500 companies fired for quoting the scriptures or forbidden to display family pictures in their office cubicles because they offend homosexual employees.

? Christian churches are being ordered by the government to perform lesbian marriages.

? “Anti-bullying” programs explicitly promote homosexuality in public schools.

? Municipal workers forbidden by the city to say “family values” because those words constitute a hate crime.

? Proposed federal laws supposedly aimed at preventing employment discrimination that would make discrimination against Christians the law of the land.

? Other “antidiscrimination” laws make Christian charities illegal.

? Secularist liberals in Congress seek to censor or bankrupt Christian broadcasters.

? The IRS “cracking down” on Christian pastors who oppose homosexual propaganda in schools, abortion on demand, or same-sex marriage.

? The real impact of same-sex marriage? Any criticism of homosexuality would be legally defined as bigotry. Christians who protest could lose their jobs, go to jail, or see their churches shut down by the government.

? The Christian haters are becoming an elite class of super citizens whose moral views are actively sponsored by the state while Christians are increasingly censored, penalized, and even prosecuted.

52 comments

old comment by OtakuX

? Christians threatened with prison for protesting the homosexual agenda.

-If that's true, they were likely being violent or obscene

? Employees of Fortune 500 companies fired for quoting the scriptures or forbidden to display family pictures in their office cubicles because they offend homosexual employees.

-That is the most blatant lie I've ever heard

? “Anti-bullying” programs explicitly promote homosexuality in public schools.

-No, they point out the fact it's a valid lifestyle and not an excuse to harass someone.

? Municipal workers forbidden by the city to say “family values” because those words constitute a hate crime.

-Sounds like a lie, but so many DO use it as hate speech these days...

? Secularist liberals in Congress seek to censor or bankrupt Christian broadcasters.

-Never going to happen, as nice as that would be.

? The IRS “cracking down” on Christian pastors who oppose homosexual propaganda in schools, abortion on demand, or same-sex marriage.

-You say that like it's a bad thing.

? The real impact of same-sex marriage? Any criticism of homosexuality would be legally defined as bigotry. Christians who protest could lose their jobs, go to jail, or see their churches shut down by the government.

-Wait, wait, wait, bigotry would be defined as bigotry? STOP THE PRESSES!!!

? The Christian haters are becoming an elite class of super citizens whose moral views are actively sponsored by the state while Christians are increasingly censored, penalized, and even prosecuted.

-No, the Christians are being left alone. It's the ones who use it as an excuse for their hate that people are against.

old comment by Hasan Prishtina

Employees of Fortune 500 companies fired for quoting the scriptures or forbidden to display family pictures in their office cubicles because they offend homosexual employees.

The case in question is Peterson v Hewlett Packard. The judgement, here, is well worth looking at. Basically, Peterson got fired for posting scriptural quotations in his cubicle which were aimed against gays, against company policy, and refusing to take them down. The management treated him very well in negotiations, but he refused to compromise, claiming he was being persecuted - where have we heard that before? Read the judgement to see what the court made of this.

As for the IRS, it's hard to see why an organization that is devoted to lobbying and endorsement of political candidates should benefit from 501(c)(3) status.

Raymond has no idea what persecution is.

old comment by Swede

Christians are being silenced all across America: in the political debate, the public square, the schools, the workplace, and even in the sanctuary of their own churches. Read these signs of the times:
Oh, poor wittle Christians!
? Christians threatened with prison for protesting the homosexual agenda.
No, Christians are threatened with prison for discriminating against, attacking and killing homosexuals.
? Employees of Fortune 500 companies fired for quoting the scriptures or forbidden to display family pictures in their office cubicles because they offend homosexual employees.
Employees are required to keep their workplaces in accordance with company policies. If private pictures are not allowed, you can’t display private pictures. How would you like it if your co-worker quoted Das Kapital back to you?
? Christian churches are being ordered by the government to perform lesbian marriages.
I’m a bit undecided about this. Government-employed people on government-owned premises shouldn’t be able to discriminate against people wanting to get married. But churches and priests aren’t government premises or government employees.
? “Anti-bullying” programs explicitly promote homosexuality in public schools.
No, anti-bullying programs explicitly oppose bullying in public schools. That includes bullying the homosexuals.
? Municipal workers forbidden by the city to say “family values” because those words constitute a hate crime.
It depends on the context, I’d guess. Gender-neutral marriage laws strengthen family values, as more families are formed. But that’s not what you meant, is it?
? Proposed federal laws supposedly aimed at preventing employment discrimination that would make discrimination against Christians the law of the land.
How so? Just because a law CAN be used against you doesn’t mean that it will ONLY be used against you. It will probably also be used against those who discriminate against Christians. And aren’t an overwhelming majority of the Americans Christians? Hard to discriminate against the majority
? Other “antidiscrimination” laws make Christian charities illegal.
Only if you place terms and requirements to receive your charity, I’d guess. Or, if you pour so much politics into it, it becomes a political rally and can no longer be tax-exempt. Is that what you mean?
? Secularist liberals in Congress seek to censor or bankrupt Christian broadcasters.
Secularists seek to limit hate speech and veiled threats from Christian broadcasters, and by exposing their bigotry and hatred to their listeners, sometimes bankrupting them.
? The IRS “cracking down” on Christian pastors who oppose homosexual propaganda in schools, abortion on demand, or same-sex marriage.
If you want to run a political think-tank, you can’t have religious tax-exempt status, stupid.
? The real impact of same-sex marriage? Any criticism of homosexuality would be legally defined as bigotry. Christians who protest could lose their jobs, go to jail, or see their churches shut down by the government.
The real impact is that gay people can formalize their relationships. That is all. Is bigotry a legal term? Christians who protest about blacks or women voting will also be seen as bigots. If they do it often and loud enough they might well lose their jobs. Only the ones who do things like beat up gay people and tie them to fences might go to jail. Churches that are transformed into political forums might be shut down by government.
? The Christian haters are becoming an elite class of super citizens whose moral views are actively sponsored by the state while Christians are increasingly censored, penalized, and even prosecuted.
The bigotry haters are intelligent and educated, and earn the respect of the public, while bigotry spouters will be seen as bigots and will be despised, ignored and laughed at. None of those reactions are censorship, merely criticism.

old comment by GigaGuess

Lessee...

-Bullshit, or at the very least "conveniently" forgetting anything the protestors were doing.

-Flat out bullshit.

-Bullshit because the first amendment implicitily protects churches from being forced to anything of the sort. A Justice of the Peace might be forced to but no church would.

-No, they just say that geing gay isn't dirty, sinful and evil, and of course that people aren't justified in harassing others simply because of their orientation.

-Bullshit, but it *IS* quickly becoming a code word for anti-gay marriage sentiments.

-Bullshit of the HIGHEST order. I mean considering the fact that the vast, VAST majority of the lawmakers are Christian, you have a hard sell on this one.

-Only if the charities are going to hate groups, I would think.

-Because they are just scraping by, the poor lambs. I mean I am sure one of those poor dears had to sell one of his cars just to fund the expansion for his jacuzzi tub.

-You want to act on a plitical field behind the pulpit, you should be treated as a political organization, not a church. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

-Bullshit, head to toe.

-Please. Christians are in no peril of losing their cushy, favored position in America. The rest of the world not molding itself to your whims is NOT persecution, get over yourself.

old comment by UHM

1. How exactly did they "protest"? My guess would be they screamed insults and tried to push for fight. You know, the usual tactics.
2. Company policies. As long as they don't fire anybody for being Christian, sit down and shut up.
3. No, stop lying.
4. Only as much as free speech promotes anarchism.
5. See 2.
6. No. Discriminating means on the basis of being, not on the basis of saying or doing. When they say something that goes against company policy, of course they can be fired.
7. Total fucking bullshit.
8. Why make the effort? Just wait until they are bankrupt.
9. That's the tax law. Either your tax ecempt and shut your hole about politics, or you're not tax excempt and can say whatever you want.
10. They might lose their jobs, but see 2. As their is such a thing as freedom of speech it isn't hate speech unless they call for violence, at which point such a speech is a danger to society and they are right to go to prison for endangering other people. This has nothing to do with discrimination but with human decency.
11. Freudian Slip Deluxe.

old comment by Seeker Lancer

- The subject of their protest is inconsequential, if they were threatened by the authorities they were doing something they weren't supposed to be doing.

- Citation needed. If someone did get in trouble for displaying something in their cubicle it's probably because the company forbids any religious displays at workstations and not just Christian ones.

- If not bullying homosexuals is promoting it then I guess so? But no they don't go out of their way to promote homosexuality.

- You're full of shit. However when people say "family values" these days it usually is to promote bigotry against one group or another.

- I don't know about that but I do know about republican efforts to take away public broadcasting.

- More likely the IRS is cracking down on groups that aren't so "non-profit" as they claim.

- Oh no, people will call you a bigot for being a bigot! Poor you!

- Yeah a marginalized minority is a class of "super citizens" while the privileged majority is suffering. Tell me another one. Look at the makeup of congress and the population of the United States and tell me another one.

old comment by Hasan Prishtina

@Seeker Lancer

There were other religious objects on display in cubicles, but, in the words of the judgement:

Peterson compares himself with other employees who posted religious and secular messages and symbols in their work-spaces. Yet Peterson failed to present any evidence that the posters in other Hewlett-Packard employees' cubicles were intended to be “hurtful” to, or critical of, any other employees or otherwise violated the company's harassment policy. In fact, the only posters in other employees' work-spaces that Peterson identified were of “Native American dream catchers,” “New Age pictures of whales,” and a yin-yang symbol.

old comment by AlphaWolfRGB (formerly Cernunnos... The RealOne)

1. Nope, not even Fred Phelps and his 'pseudo'Christian nutsquad. Free speech.
2. Chick-Fil-A, In-n-Out...
3. I remember the Old Testament said something about men laying with men, but not the other way.
4. No, just to avoid gay youth being picked on because of their sexuality
5. See #1
6. As I checked last night CBN and TBN are still here.
7. Only on tax-evading televangelists (Not regular church pastors) nothing more
8. Same-sex being willing to adopt children will reduce the abortion rate
9. Again, see #1
10. No, in reality the Religious Right is getting more and more ground, even more than in the 80s. Plus, anti-religious hipster kids on Tumblr are not the elite class.

old comment by John

What a load of exaggerated, misstated twaddle. Here's reality:

Christians are threatened with prison for physically attacking homosexuals; not for simply protesting.
Employees of Fortune 500 companies have been fired for quoting the scriptures to fellow employees of other faiths after being told to stop. You left that last part out.
Christian churches have been ordered by the government to rent their facilities for lesbian wedding celebrations if they rent to other members of the general public outside their church members; not perform lesbian weddings.
"Anti-bullying" programs explicitly promote not assaulting homosexuals in public schools. They don't promote homosexuality.
Proposed federal laws supposedly aimed at preventing employment discrimination that would actually prevent employment discrimination. You can't claim the right to violate civil laws because your religion says it's OK.
Other "antidiscrimination" laws make Christian charities non tax-deductible; not illegal.
Secularist liberals in Congress seek to censor or bankrupt Christian broadcasters by taking away tax deductibility.
The IRS "cracking down" on Christian pastors who oppose homosexual propaganda in schools, abortion on demand, or same-sex marriage. (Got that one right! Only churches get tax deductions; not political activists)
The real impact of same-sex marriage? Homosexuals would get married.
The majority of citizens moral views are actively sponsored by the state, while bigoted, lunatic-fringe Christians are increasingly censored, penalized, and even prosecuted.

old comment by Qvantvm

? Only when they protest in ways that would be illegal for anyone.
? Now, that's simply wrong.
? No, I'm pretty sure churches form their own policies on their marriages.
? *Explicitly demote homophobia. Fixed.
? Actually, gay rights are a family value.
? No, discrimination laws are against discrimination.
? If you can prove that, I promise you I'll lose faith in humanity. But since you can't prove it and yet said it anyway, I've lost faith in humanity.
? Seriously, who and when?
? The dreaded gay mafia and abortion cults do not, in fact, exist.
? No, actual hate crimes against homosexuality are what is treated as bigotry. As they should be.
? No, the only big group of "Christian haters" in most first world countries are dumb kids on the internet. I don't think "im not a chrstn i jus join 2 say ur religon am dum and rong lol!" could really count as persecution.

old comment by Adrian

"? Christians threatened with prison for protesting the homosexual agenda."

You seriously expect us to believe that? In a country where the Phelps clan manages to continue their antics? Hell, not only can't the police arrest them, they actually have to spend time and manpower (which means taxpayers money) to protect them from counterprotesters. If the Phelps clan can manage that, your "protesters" would have to get violent, or at least to harrass people specifically to get arrested.

And let's be honest for an instant: you aren't protesting "the homosexual agenda", there is no such thing. You are attempting to bully homosexuals out of existence, or at least to make sure that they remain second class citizens. I do kinda wish you could get arrested for that crap...

"? Employees of Fortune 500 companies fired for quoting the scriptures or forbidden to display family pictures in their office cubicles because they offend homosexual employees."

Regarding the first part: seriously? In Murikka? I do believe that some big companies have an employees code of conduct that asks people to refrain from divisive subjects like politics, religion or sports, but if this is just a quote in a civil conversation it's very probable that nobody will give enough of a crap to raise a stink. If, on the other hand, someone is beating coworkers (or worse, customers) over the head with Leviticus quotes, you can bet he'll get fired, and rightfully so! Hostile work environments negatively impact productivity: do you really expect big companies to tolerate that?

As for the second part: absolute bullshit! Unless your family is the Phelps clan, maybe. If company policy forbids personalizing your cubicle, everybody has to obey it. You're supposed to be working anyway, not talking about religion or gazing at pictures of the missus and your spawns...

"? Christian churches are being ordered by the government to perform lesbian marriages."

Complete bullcrap: the ACLU would be slapping the government with the First Amendment if any government official ever got brain-dead enough to try to pull such a stunt.

"? “Anti-bullying” programs explicitly promote homosexuality in public schools."

Since homosexuality (real or percieved) is a major cause of bullying, it only makes sense to address the question head on. Despite what you may believe, explaining what homosexuality is and fighting homophobia is not quite the same thing as telling kiddies that they should "turn gay" (which isn't possible anyway)

Since bullying (be it gay-bashing or other forms of bullying) results in many cases of depression, bad grades and even suicide attempts, one could argue that the government could be accused of criminal neglect if it didn't fight the problem.

"? Municipal workers forbidden by the city to say “family values” because those words constitute a hate crime."

Hate crime legistation doesn't work this way! [/Morbo]

And yeah, "family values" has become a pretty loaded expression. It's probably best if government workers avoid using a vocabulary that stinks of right-wing dog whistle politics.

"? Proposed federal laws supposedly aimed at preventing employment discrimination that would make discrimination against Christians the law of the land."

Preventing you from discriminating isn't discrimination against you...

"? Other “antidiscrimination” laws make Christian charities illegal."

Nope, only disqualifies them for government funding if they let the "Christian" part get in the way of the "charity" part.

"? Secularist liberals in Congress seek to censor or bankrupt Christian broadcasters."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Tell me that again the day the court forces Limbaugh out of the air or rules that Faux Noise has to report the truth.

"? The IRS “cracking down” on Christian pastors who oppose homosexual propaganda in schools, abortion on demand, or same-sex marriage."

[Citation needed]. I wish the IRS had the balls to take away the tax-exempt status of churches that dabble in politics, like it is supposed to do...

"? The real impact of same-sex marriage? Any criticism of homosexuality would be legally defined as bigotry. Christians who protest could lose their jobs, go to jail, or see their churches shut down by the government."

Unless you can provide an actual valid reason to oppose marriage equality or homosexuality, it IS pure bigotry. But the First Amendment protects your right to be a bigot and to make you bigotry known to all.

"? The Christian haters are becoming an elite class of super citizens whose moral views are actively sponsored by the state while Christians are increasingly censored, penalized, and even prosecuted."

Bullcrap! And stop trying to associate all Christians with your lunatic brand of fundie Christianity.