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Wesley J Smith #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

(Let me give you a hypothetical scenario.

A hospital is on fire. You only have time to do one of two things before escaping - you can save a day-old infant, or you can save twenty petri dishes with frozen embryos for IVF, some of which will be disposed of. You cannot save both the infant and the petri dishes.)

Those dumb scenarios are no basis for the making of public policy. Hey, there are four men on the moon, one falls into a permanent coma. The rocket breaks down and the escape pod can only fit three. Which do you choose? Please.

BAP #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

Those who successfully commit self-murder [suicide] are not typically charged and jailed for obvious reasons. Formal charges and jail time are not the criteria by which one determines whether or not something is illegal, "even in a country as socially backwards as the United States."

Actually, self-murder and self-rape [masturbation] cannot really be compared in the manner you may hope. Consider the definitions of the basic crimes on which the self-afflicted versions are based.

I agree that "slavery is categorically immoral," although it is debatable how long it has been "outlawed" and in what forms it currently exists. However, it does not logically follow that "people own their own lives." The proposition that slavery is evil can only address the question of whether or not one human being may or can "own" another. It says nothing concerning whether or not a given human being "owns" his own life.

bmmg39 #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

[In response to bmmg39's <a href="comments.asp?id=14137" target="_blank">brain vitamin</a> comment: "The brain develops in the third trimester of pregnancy."]

"Develops"? That means it's already there. Nothing is added.

bmmg39 #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

Cells aren't human beings; human embryos ARE. If you deny this, then you are ignorant of basic seventh-grade science. That many die of natural causes (i.e. are miscarried) is irrelevant; just because born people often die of natural causes doesn't mean they aren't human beings, or that it's okay to kill them intentionally.

Susan #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

you need to stop with the dishonest talking points about Terri Schiavo.

She wasn't "brain dead," and the autopsy did NOT show any proof she was PVS.

The only "proof" she was PVS was that a judge--an incompetent judge, by the way--ruled that she was based on "evidence" provided by the husband's doctors, doctors who were HIRED to say she was PVS in order that he could have her killed. The appellate courts could do nothing to reverse this decision because they do not rule on so-called "findings of fact." THAT was why the Schindlers went to Congress to try to get a de novo review of the case, which, by the way was perfectly legal--Michael Schiavo's and his supporters' lies to the contrary--as it is often used by those on death row.

Why must the pro-Michael Schiavo people be so dishonest? If you take away their "arguments," ALL of which are based on what Judge Greer ruled, MS's case would evaporate, and he would be seen as a person with a total lack of believability.

Deep Toad #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

[A pro-lifer's flabbergastingly ironic response to a comment about Ramesh Ponnuru, author of "The Party of Death", who doesn't condem the Republican party for not mandating compulsory blood donations (which can save up to three lives, when forced pregnancies only save one or two lives apiece)]

It's amazing how myopic you are.

For someone who aggressively argues right-to-die as a privacy issue to recommend such a notion is laughable. Either you own your body or you don't, right?

Bartender, I'll have two of what Winston's having.

Wesley J Smith #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

It strikes me you don't give a darn about the rule of law, Winston Jen. You celebrate "underground" euthanasia and people defying the law.

If society, in its democratic wisdom, doesn't legalize assisted suicide, that law should be respected and obeyed. When it is violated, it should be enforced. Or, do you believe in underground bank robbery, too?

Wesley J Smith #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

(If life was all that mattered, we should outlaw cigarettes and alcohol, because they shorten life.

If life was all that mattered, according to you, we should make blood donations compulsory for all eligible donors.)

Winston Jen: You are so full of illogical nonsense that it is almost hopeless to interact with you. Nothing I say requires vitalism. But you just keep on arguing against points nobody makes. At least in that way you have a bare chance of winning the debate.

Jason Rennie #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

(Voluntary euthanasia has no victim, just as making love has no victim)

Of course it doesn't have a victim, just as murder has no victims. I don't hear any complaints from people that have been killed about why they "choose" to do it.

But hey, your a barbarian and it is pretty obvious that you don't care about anything more significant than getting your own pro-death way.

Dan #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

(Assisted suicide is not needed because:)

I refer you to the proof above... X (jumping out of a burning building) is independent from Y (voluntary euthanasia/assisted suicide). This has already been established, so could you please establish a case for voluntary euthanasia/assisted suicide without referring to independent circumstances.

It is also odd that you have taken a moment in time and applied the outcome of the event to the moment previous to the outcome of the event, when in reality we would not know the outcome of the event in the situation you described because it hadn't happened yet. This is faulty reasoning; However, I'll bite: if we did know the outcome of the event (that we would inevitably die) what difference would it make if we jumped or if we stayed? Suffering is inconsequential either way because the process of dying would be indiscriminate.

Ricardo #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

(Which would put even unfertilised eggs and skin cells on the same level of an adult human being. So to avoid ridiculous comparisons such as those, you'd have to value something like consciousness, or at least the level of consciousness than humans possess, more than simply being "human".)

Actually one would just have to define personhood as being a property of alive individuals of species of higher inteligence... wich acording to the very definiton of "individual" (an unfertilized egg isnt gonna grow on it's own as a full human being.. at least not on the real world.) would completely eliminate such ridiculous comparisons.

But if one would choose consciousness as the absolute consideration for personhood... then newborn humans are just fu%ed up... acording to the latest philosofical rumblings of peter singer and daniel dennet... they have no self consciousness... wich ultimately delimitates moral significance so...
let's just kill babies at will.

Don Nelson #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

[Replying to an argument that assisted suicide is compassionate and respects people's right to autonomy]

The notion that meaning in life diminishes as automy diminishes or that the value of life is dependent upon its length is offensive.

I'm guessing that that lady has no idea that's what her words mean and that's how people living highly dependent lives are going to hear it. She probably thinks her words are "compassionate" too.

bmmg39 #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

(Embryos are "human", but they're not PEOPLE. How can you consider it to be a person when it doesn't have a brain?)

When exactly do you think the pregnant woman swallows that magical vitamin that adds the brain, since you mystifyingly believe it's not in the first cell?

Jason Rennie #fundie wesleyjsmith.com

[Apparently, a San Antonio fertility clinic is now going to make embryos from donated egg and sperm, not to help the biological parents get pregnant but for sale to infertile couples.]

Didn't you know that the NAS is made up of mostly "atheists" (or so I keep getting told and pointed to various surveys) and so is it really a surprise that their ethical guide lines are so questionable ?

When you bow down before the deity of scientism, and even more when you done the high priests labcoat, why would it surprise anyone that such people would endorse human sacrifice to their god ?

Welcome to 21st century paganism. It worked for Molech and it works for these guys.