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Knight4Him #fundie ucf.rivals.com

[Ahh the amusement I find watching a fundie marvel at the way the world fits him perfectly, just like the water marvels at the way the puddle fits it perfectly.]

Have you ever considered the complexity of the human eyeball? It's an absolute miracle how two cells, once united, become specialized and develop into the various components that make up blood, lymph, skin cells, bone cells, nerve cells, etc...and form tissues and organs that all have complex functions that work together and form the human body... insects, amphibians, reptiles, mammals, fish... and then there are plants and trees, different types of soil, the sun is the perfect distance from the Earth..any closer we'd burn...any further, we'd freeze. The planets are in perfect rotation... Believing in God a fairytale? It takes a greater leap of faith to think these things just happened.

nuknight_01 #fundie ucf.rivals.com

[Religious people have caused untold death and suffering throughout history. Brush up on your history.]

Just because history is on my side doesn't mean that you need to ask me to go back and read history.

Think of it this way, the "why do you act in a moral manner" function is recursive. You're trying to make your way to the exit condition. You will never exit the recursive loop with an atheist world view. This is because "Because I said so." isn't a valid exit condition. That would be because anyone can apply that ambiguously and after that there really isn't much left to talk about is there? That's the point I'm trying to make. It is an ends versus means argument and doesn't make the case for a creator or any deity. The majority of people can instantly see the case for a creator based on the contingency of existence. The debate comes down to the nature of the creator/creative force, etc. But out of this debate comes practical issues. Issues that many atheists who are actually very interested in moral behavior (that's a good thing), cannot adequately side step.

nuknight_01 #fundie ucf.rivals.com

I don't think people have a problem with other people's beliefs. It's much more the tone with which atheists proselytize that gets people's feathers in a ruffle.

Besides that there are some obvious logical pitfalls to atheism. One possible logical problem with atheism is that if there is no God, then what ultimately forms the grounds for the claims of right and wrong? Is right and wrong formed upon the consensus opinion of the moment? If you change your mind that something such as unilateral warfare for profit is no longer wrong and everyone in the room agrees with you, then it's no longer wrong? If you've ever heard Chemmie pontificate, then you'd realize that right and wrong in his mind are as simple as what he thinks must be true. Same seems to be true with Tommstein. Ack!

But just because there are logical inconsistencies, which are possibly axiomatic in nature, with an atheist being preoccupied with right and wrong, it does not mean that they are in fact not preoccupied with it. And that's fine. But if they ever truly realize the liberation from morality that their position allows them, then I'd be worried. Sure there have been Christian tyrants. But their actions are in opposition to their professed beliefs. An atheist tyrant is doing what is allowable under his belief system. Two quick examples are Pol Pot and Stalin.

nuknight_01 #fundie ucf.rivals.com

[Religious people have engaged in all kinds of horrors throughout history, like the Crusades and the Inquisition.]

To prove that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, why don't you go ahead and enumerate all of the atrocities. How many people do you actually think died during the reformation? Please I'd love to hear this. You're just digging a hole for yourself because you have no clue about religious history. You just choose to rely on your favorite fallacy of the moment. Hey you kept on crying "Crusades! Crusades!". I answered your question. You're an imbecile.

nuknight_01 #fundie ucf.rivals.com

[Everyone knows that religious people have engaged in all kinds of atrocities throughout history.]

You keep on telling me what common knowledge your mythology--oops I mean sense of history--is. Face it. You're making it up. The facts don't fit your "fairy tale". Additionally, you wish to fallaciously reason that the misuse of religion is an indictment on Christianity. Have you not seen democracies misused for kickbacks and other corruption, should we throw that out as well?

Here's a hint. If you're going to try to make some vague reference to prove your point, at least know what you're talking about.

nuknight_01 #fundie ucf.rivals.com

[The Crusades, Inquisition, and other horrors were done by religious men.]

The argument that these atrocities show the necessity to either do away with the church or that there is no God are fallible. First, let us construct an analogy. Has a democratic society ever done great harm without cause to a group of people? Absolutely. Should we then abandon democracy in the US? No. Then why do people point to the Crusades and Inquisition as a reason to shun religion? Poor reasoning I suppose.