My present city is a pretty horrible place to live. I had previously attributed it to the general poverty and dustiness of the area, the general grossness of the infantrymen who populate it, and the general horribleness of the south's social order. But I'm increasingly convinced demographics are the reason why. I live in a military town with a median age in the mid-20s. Nearly half the population is under 25. These people don't have kids.
The result is a predictable lack of civic virtue. People get in fights. They speed violently. There's strip clubs, grillists, decal shops, and the like everywhere. Everything sucks and everyone hates it here.
Children civilize things. They promote awareness, respect, and awe for the order of being, through which God has permitted man to participate in the act of creation (hence the near-religious reverence parents feel holding their newborn children for the first time). They remind parents of their obligations and encourage them to behave -- not only to set a good example but to contribute to the betterment of society for their children's sake. Children make obvious the goodness of obedience to authority, the dutiful care for one's family, and reverence for elders and ancestors.
A society without children is a markedly deficient society -- one that has no reason to live at all, much less live well. I suspect this is why liberalism so desperately hates the idea of parenthood and children: it's only possible in a society with comparatively few children.
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Yeah because people with kids never go to strip clubs, whatever the hell grillists are, decal shops and the like.
And I've seen some douchebags use their children as an excuse to do whatever they want. How's that factor into your theory.
I didn't know 'liberalism' was about creating a society of hoons speeding, fighting and grilling. Learn summink every day.
What are grillists, anyway?
My present city is a pretty horrible place to live.
Then move. Problem solved.
general poverty and dustiness of the area
'Cause children not being able to eat is as bad as getting one's car dirty driving down the street. Uh huh.
Children make obvious the goodness of obedience to authority, the dutiful care for one's family, and reverence for elders and ancestors.
This dude's never had kids. I've never had kids and I can see a mile away that he's never had any either.
"grillists"?
"decal shops"?
Sounds like you live in an area specificly set aside for catering to the military.
The idea that liberalism somehow hates the idea of parenthood and children, is refuted by observable reality.
Your town sure does sound like a hell-hole (if we grant it that you're not just suffering from massive confirmation bias), but having kids is not going to make living there easier. Trust me.
And save the bible-babble (bibling?) for someone who believes.
English is my second language so maybe there's another meaning to the phrase, but isn't a decal shop a place that sells stickers?
That doesn't sound like a collapse-promoting business
Everything sucks and everyone hates it here.
"Everyone" meaning exactly the person who wrote this.
Trust me, having children is not going to make immoral people suddenly become moral. I've seen many young idiots continue to be young idiots even after having children.
And this idea that liberals hate children is stupid. I'm probably a liberal compared to proph here, and I have two wonderful children whom I adore and care for.
" suspect this is why liberalism so desperately hates the idea of parenthood and children: it's only possible in a society with comparatively few children. "
Except in the 60s when liberalism was caused by hordes of children.
Also conservatives cut education and medical and food budgets for children because "real Americans" do do those things.
"Children civilize things."
Ah, yes. Running around & crashing into things. Mudpies. Worm-eating dares. Tongues stuck to frozen flag poles. Yelling & screaming. Rudimentary social skills. Supersoakers. Stupid pranks. Burping contests. Lots of toys & endless silliness....Such quiet, mature, self-controlled adult things.
Since when do liberals hate children or parenthood? They have children just like conservatives. And if you live in a military town in the South, I'm betting there aren't a whole lot of liberals there. The population is young, and probably predominantly male and single. That's the only explanation you need for a town full of hell-raising. It has nothing to do with their politics.
Where... do... you... get... this... from? Seriously. Where are these large numbers of child-hating liberals of which you speak?
I've never heard of a military town before, but it sounds like that has more to do with the conditions in your city.
I'm pretty sure the small towns where teenagers and young adults are spewing out the childrens left and right are still the same small towns. They have the same crap and basically everyone hates it.
This is just a rambling way to say "think of the children!!!" Because, clearly, liberals hate children. And parents are never irresponsible... Children make everything magical and special, herp-derp!
There's some little grain of reason at the bottom of this pile. A college community (where I live) is different from a military heavy community (where I've lived) is different from a bedroom community of middle class commuters. It's called demographics. Families spend money differently than young single males. Derp. It's not the children causing the differences, if that was the inference.
"Children civilize things. They promote awareness, respect, and awe for the order of being, through which God has permitted man to participate in the act of creation (hence the near-religious reverence parents feel holding their newborn children for the first time). They remind parents of their obligations and encourage them to behave -- not only to set a good example but to contribute to the betterment of society for their children's sake. Children make obvious the goodness of obedience to authority, the dutiful care for one's family, and reverence for elders and ancestors."
I agree.
SOCIETY UBER ALLES
:p
Yes, we liberals hate children so much. Which is why we push so hard for education funding, health care, sex education, regulation of pollutants so the earth doesn't go to shit, and... wait what?
"Children make obvious the goodness of obedience to authority, the dutiful care for one's family, and reverence for elders and ancestors."
This truly made me laugh out loud. He's not getting respect he thinks old people deserve, or something, and it's so much easier to manipulate small children into doing it than people old enough to think for themselves. Hopefully he doesn't get his claws into them too much before they grow up.
grillists, decal shops
WTF is a grillist? Does he mean "hamburger joint" = fast food restaurant?
Decal shops? Are bumper stickers evil? Even the ones that show the outline of a fish or say "Jesus lives!"?
Or does he mean tattoo parlor, as one poster mentioned above?
Though for different reasons I have to agree on two things: living in a small town with a large army base isn't necessarily fun and having kids does tend to change a person's attitude and immediate sense of responsiblility, but that has nothing to do with one's political stance or views on obedience to authority.
'Children civilize things. They promote awareness, respect, and awe for the order of being'
Excuse me, but as a young person I have worked a job for a number of years when I have had to deal with shitty children and their awful parents.
The children don't care about authority for a single second. They do as they like, they hurt other kids, they push, they lie, they do anything to ensure that they get their own way.
And their parents, often violently, defend their dickishness to the hilt. If I have to deal with another parent who decides their infant child magically deserves to go on a ride meant for 15 year olds, I will go postal.
You know, it's possible to have children and raise them as atheists, or with a healthy questioning attitude toward authority. Lots of "liberals" (read; people who aren't insanely right wing) have kids too. You can do it without becoming an authoritarian nazi or forcing your kid into some sort of fucking power/guilt trip.
God has permitted man to participate in the act of creation (hence the near-religious reverence parents feel holding their newborn children
So when a mother bear tears a group of campers to shreads because they approached her cub, she's performing religious reverence as her part in the act of creation?
I hope the park rangers are aware of that when they shoot the bear.
a town has businesses that cater to its population. No kids then no toy stores, etc. Young single men and you get bars and strip clubs.
a military town should have a respect for country and authority, but young men typically dont worry about mowed lawns , flower gardens and nicely painted fences.
[The result is a predictable lack of civic virtue. People get in fights. They speed violently. There's strip clubs, grillists, decal shops, and the like everywhere. Everything sucks and everyone hates it here.]
My town has so many fucking kids the school system doesn't know where to put them all.
[Children make obvious the goodness of obedience to authority, the dutiful care for one's family, and reverence for elders and ancestors.]
If you get a group of children together, chances are, a good portion of them won't obey you. Just ask a teacher.
So what are you implying?
We need more children in the military?
Don't the Islamic fundamentalist terror groups use children in order to achieve 'military' objectives?
What does that make you....
@Giardano Bruno
Not fundie. Military towns are usually rough.
Are they? The ones I've lived in are actually pretty decent. Granted, I've only lived in two so far, so my sample size is small.
Curiously enough, I think he actually has a point... unfortunate as it is, people with children seem to be much more easily swayed by the fearmongering that lies at the heart of conservatism, and even people who have come to understand that, say, exhibiting an irrational fear of and antipathy towards gays/black people/middle easterners/... only makes themselves look pathetic seem to be quite inclined to drop this line of reasoning when their children are concerned (perhaps because tolerance fundamentally still registers as a sort of risk-seeking behaviour for them, perhaps). See also all the countless "concerned mothers" organisations out there.
Um, The Demographic Winter is not a documentary.
...Okay, it technically is, but it's not a truthful documentary. For that matter, neither is Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed .
"Children make obvious the goodness of obedience to authority, the dutiful care for one's family, and reverence for elders and ancestors."
heh...go visit a London or a Plymouth suburb and say that.Plennnty of children there,But I would advice against patting them on the head...
So THAT's why I'm so uncivilized; I have no kids!
Oh, wait. I'm very civilized; I don't get into fights, I never visit strip clubs or decal shops. I managed to be nice and loving to my parents and follow the laws. I have many reasons to live and I do live fairly well. I'm not a liberal though, it's way to right-wing for me.
If the median age is mid-20s, that means half the population is below mid-20's, stupid, there's no need to say the same thing twice.
In a TV-program I watched yesterday, about very premature babies, there was a woman who was 23 and had four children before the premature one. The father was about the same age and had "an additional five kids with other women". (It was a bit unclear whether he was the father of all of HER five children). Ergo; you don't have to be 25 to have kids. (Somebody should have told them about condoms, though, they didn't look like they could afford about 10 kids...)
Actually made sense until the end--children do tend to stabilize people and encourage forethought and care, because they need so much protecting over such a long timescale. Statistically speaking; not to say there aren't plenty of utterly crappy parents out there.
Then he has to pull out 'goodness of obedience to authority' and long-jump to an asinine conclusion. Hmn.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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