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ok...well after helping with science homework tonight, the animated topic of evolution has come up in the SS household. My kids are quite interested in this and find it fascinating that you people believe you evolved from apes...and even moreso, in fact, that you are apes. You should see their looks of disbelief......They are truly concerned and think something must be wrong with you.

I have been told to ask you guys a question or two...please keep in mind that this is their question and your reply is to be directed towards them. Please keep in mind their ages of 13 and 11, and they know virtually nothing about science or evolution....so please keep it nice and age-appropriate. They are excited to see your replies and going to be checking in...not only that but they are going to be responding. Please be aware that my kids have been forewarned that some on here will call me names and/or try to insult me in a variety of ways...so if that feels good to you, go ahead, we're all ok with it....but they do ask that the questions be answered.

Also, all answers on behalf of my name in this thread will be answered by them, unless otherwise indicated.

So the questions are:

Kylie

"If creatures evolved from worms or other primitive animals, then why are there still worms today?"

Katie

"Evolutionists say that humans are apes...so if that is the case why are our mental capabilities so much better than apes, and also, when can we expect apes to start talking?"

75 comments

old comment by McCulloch

If creatures evolved from worms or other primitive animals, then why are there still worms today?
Because they have been successful in their environment. Evolution is not about progression from simple to complex, even though that is sometimes the effect. Evolution is about adaption to the environment. Worms are a very successful life form. They are very well adapted to their environment.

Evolutionists say that humans are apes...so if that is the case why are our mental capabilities so much better than apes, and also, when can we expect apes to start talking?
Humans are one branch of the apes along with chimpanzees, gorillas, bonobos and orangutans. Each species of ape has evolved differently, according to the envronments that they found themselves in. Humans evolved big brains and sophisticated communications. The other apes, did not. Perhaps, soon under the correct environmental circumstances, some of the other apes might develop similar abilities. However, such things are dreadfully difficult to predict. And soon, in evolutionary terms, means in a few thousand generations. Don't hold your breath.

old comment by Joules

*bemused* I know this pillock is most likely lying through his rotting teeth, but IF this situation has arisen (as I'm sadly sure it must in a good few fundie households), I really pity those poor kids.

Please keep in mind their ages of 13 and 11, and they know virtually nothing about science or evolution.

Fundie idiots crippling their kids. When my son was 11, we were discussing how time travel might be (realistically) possible, and now he's 13 we're considering how, genetically, I could have truly green eyes when all the rest of my family have blue. Though that being said we have no idea whatsoever who my father's father was... OH NOES!!! Isn't there something in the babble about bastards and their children being cursed to the nth generation or summat? (I'd do a smug rolling eye smiley if I knew how...)

Where was I? Oh yes...

Nope - nowt wrong with us. The whole of life is this beautiful, fascinating, captivating adventure waiting to be explored. I'd pity anyone too stupid and ignorant to do anything but cower in the stinking dankness of ignorance and delusion - if I could spare the time.

old comment by gremlinn

"If creatures evolved from worms or other primitive animals, then why are there still worms today?"

Not all creatures evolved from worms. However, those that did are still worms - just different. As to why they are still worms: that's the particular branch along the tree of life that they took, and it suited their niche in the environment well.

"Evolutionists say that humans are apes...so if that is the case why are our mental capabilities so much better than apes, and also, when can we expect apes to start talking?"

1. Humans are apes...we're one species of the Great Apes. That means the first question should really be "why are our mental capabilities so much better than other apes?" One facet of the answer is to point out that other apes aren't necessarily all that far behind in mental capabilities. Some can learn quite complex tasks and a good amount of sign language, if not spoken language.

Secondly, given any metric of mental capabilities, one species had to come out on top. It happened to be us, which is why we beat every species to the punch by being the first able to ask the question.

2. Natural evolution among apes has likely run dry in terms of the right kind pressures to shape another evolutionary line towards human-level spoken language. But if humans and their technology were to suddenly disappear, another ape species would probably give rise to a speaking species within a few tens of thousands of years, I would guess.

Hope that helped, kids. Now go teach your daddy all about it!

old comment by szaleniec

"The SS household" - is it bad that this conjured up a rather unfortunate image?

"If creatures evolved from worms or other primitive animals, then why are there still worms today?" If Americans descended from Britons, why are there still Britons today?

"Evolutionists say that humans are apes...so if that is the case why are our mental capabilities so much better than apes, and also, when can we expect apes to start talking?" Humans aren't apes. Biologically we're in the order Primates, which includes other hominids (all now extinct), apes, monkeys and some other species. It's not saying that all these animals including us are the same, just that we have a common ancestor. We have a greater mental capacity than other animals (at least in terms of logical and intuitive reasoning, though any form of intelligence is notoriously hard to measure) because at some point in our past the environmental conditions favoured the survival of individuals who could think quicker. We can expect apes to start talking if/when any get "uplifted", which is a term from science fiction and futurism referring to animal species being genetically engineered with more human-like brains and vocal apparatus (not possible with current technology, but may well be at some point) - we can't necessarily expect the same conditions that gave rise to our own mental capabilities to arise in the wild, and if they do it will take many generations to have an effect.

old comment by Eden

Kylie:
Evolution doesn´t work in this way. If animals evolve, this doesn´t mean that every single member of the former species evolves into a member of the evolved species. Often evolution occurs after geographical separation, with some herds of animals becoming separated by geographical barriers (like oceans for example) resulting in those 2 grioups of animals developing separate from each other (and finally forming diferent species). If one group of animals is well adapted to its surroundings, it won´t evolve (or better said, there will be less evolutionary pressure than for a group of animals that isn´t as well adapted to its surroundings).
Also evolutioj is no linear process, it doesn´t lead straigbht to humans as "crown of creation" despite humans often seeing themselves this way. Most of the power of humans comes because sevral thousand years ago humans found way to translate their knowledge to the next generation, for example by writing it down, therefore enabling the next generation to progress further than the one before.
Without their technology however, humans are rather weak creatures. Put a naked human together with a bear into a cage and the bear will win.
Put the naked human without equipment together with a penguin to antarctica and you´ll see that the penguin will survive, whereas the human will freeze to death.

Katie:
Humans have evolved as group animals. One of the traits that are good for having several offspring in a group are a good communication and a high intelligence. Take to this the fact that humans are rather weak animals, for example not so strong and fast as a Lion and also not so strong as bears and you´ll see that human groups (tribes) with more intelligent individuals (and better communication) having more success in surviving than groups with less intelligent individuals (and worse communications).
Apes however don´t have the same poblems as humans, as they (in contrast to humans) have the ability to move in the crowns of the trees (high above the ground), therefore enabling their survival even without having to rely on the same level of intelligence as humans.
Nevertheless even they are able to use someform of language to communicate with humans. There are sevral apes who have learned a form of language (thanks to human researchers), the most famous of them probably being the Bonobo Kanzi.

old comment by doomie 22

"If creatures evolved from worms or other primitive animals, then why are there still worms today?"

creatures didn't evolve from worms. Whoever told you that knew nothing about evolution (your parents).

"Evolutionists say that humans are apes...so if that is the case why are our mental capabilities so much better than apes, and also, when can we expect apes to start talking?"

Apes and humans evolved to suit their roles and survive in their respective environments. For apes it required becoming physically stronger and for humans it required becoming mentally stronger. And who told you apes don't talk? Just because their vocal cords can't make human speech doesn't mean they can't talk to each other.

old comment by french student

1) for the same reason there still are cars and bikes, although we have invented planes that go faster and further. Worms and such are still needed by other species, and have not been hunted into extinction (like the elephant is being hunted,or the panther), so they are still here.

2) "apes" is a generic noun, just as "cats" (the proper word is "felines") are. Kitties are cats, but so are lions, tigers,panthers, and a hundred species of cats. They are not all the same, but they share caracteristics (and ancestors, waaaaay back then a long time before Jesus). The same way, gorillas and men are both apes, the same way your fluffy pet and the big lion at the zoo are both cats. Instead of being bigger and having bigger claws, we are smarter and have more agile fingers.

About cats, did you know that there is a new species of cats that is being created? When people from europe went to Australia, 200 years ago, they brought cats with them in their boats to hunt mice. The cats escaped. No animal in australia can eat cat (kangaroos do not eat meat). The cats arte getting bigger and stronger, and in several years (many years) they will be another species of cats.

old comment by FMG

1. Worms are an EXTREMELY effective lifestyle. Just because something is different does'nt make it's previous form useless. For slithering in soft "areas" a worm like body is the best. Hands and feet just get in the way. And there is no such thing as more or less primitive. The primitive tiger is a good example of something that can still screw over a human quite easily.

2. Apes do talk. Apes have "spoken language". It's just that we cannot understand it because our vocalisations are different. If I spoke to you in Chinese you would not understand me unless one of us spoke two languages. There are also non written languages. We do have an "ape/human" language called Ape Sign Language which is a universal language we are trying to teach apes to communicate. It's hard since one group does not speak the respective ape and the other does not speak human. It's quite succesful since we have a bunch of chimps who teach it to their offspring in order to make them communicate with humans.

At previous posters. We are apes. We are one of the great apes our full name is Eukarya Animalia Chordata Vertebrata Mammalia Theria Primate Anthropoidea Hominidae Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Also we have a fused Chromasome which basically indicates that we are related to chimps.

While for instance an Bornean Orangutan (I like them, they are more friendly and more fun than say a Chimp which are horrible little things) Eukarya Animalia Chordata Vertebrata Mammalia Theria Primate Anthropoidea Hominidae Pongo Pygmaeus.

old comment by

So the questions are:

Kylie

"If creatures evolved from worms or other primitive animals, then why are there still worms today?"

Because there are still environments where worms can be very successful.

Katie

"Evolutionists say that humans are apes...so if that is the case why are our mental capabilities so much better than apes, and also, when can we expect apes to start talking?"

If by "talking" human-style speech is meant, apes will talk as soon as they evolve a hyoid bone (a small bone in your throat which supports your vocal cords and permits a wide range of sounds to be made - that's how we know Neanderthals had spoken language; a hyoid bone was found in a complete Neanderthal skeleton). If by "talking" you mean communication, apes already communicate with each other. That's what all those sounds and gestures they make are for - to warn of predators, announce the finding of food, attract mates, locate young, warn off aggressive males/females, etc.

Sigh. Heck, you could learn this much watching "Primeval" on BBC America. But I bet you think cable is "sinful."

old comment by Mick

On worms... There is a large niche in earths ecology suitable for their form of life, and thus worms can continue to thrive and exist. This however doesn't mean that in the past some worms nonetheless moved into other niche's. Its not a choice between evolving or staying the same. One group of worms can adapt to new situations and over time evolve into a new species and another group can stay the same. We in fact have seen such things happening in nature, where group A of one population of animals gets isolated from group B under different environmental conditions, which group A adapts to up until the point where they become a different species altogether.

As for apes, they do not have human vocal cords, if they did, they would most certainly be capable of simple 'caveman speech', as its very clear great apes have this level of mental capacity, even if its not human level.

old comment by Swedish Pagan

I see that you have transferred your superstition and your warped perception of evolution to your kids. That is borderline child abuse.

Worms evolved from earlier wormlike creatures. Worms are no more primitive than other creatures, they fit their niche in Nature perfectly right now. The wormlike earlier creature does not exists now.

I preffer the term "realist". We humans are a part of the primate family, and no, apes are not our ancestors, they are our cousins. We have evolved in the mental capability to a greater extent than other primate species. Some later apelike species might start talking soon, perhaps in just a few millenia.

Hey, havent we told you all this already, SA? (Oh no, it was SS, wasn't it?) Couldn't you have forwardered all this information directly to your kids, instead of filling their head with Creationist nonsense, which was invented several thousand years ago, when our mental capabilites was less evolved than today.

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