History and science and arecheological finds prove the Bible and there are over 15,000 documents attesting to Jesus existence more than any figure ever to exist so don't throw that evidence at me when it works completely against you.
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Yeah, but since they're all in the bible, it doesn't really count... dumbass, so don't throw that "evidence" at me when it works completely against you.
It might just be me, but whether or not he existed (and it could probably be proven or disproven using Roman records, since they did tend to keep decent records, if I recall correctly) is immaterial.
Just because he existed doesn't mean he was right. It doesn't mean he was/is the son of God.
It doesn't prove Christianity right if Jesus was a real person. Why does it matter?
And there are 1 million documents attesting to the fact that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.
See, I can invent non-existent evidence too!
There's plenty of historical stuff in the Bible that has been verified, or at least is consistent with the history of the Jewish people, mixed in with a lot of supernatural or exaggerated stuff, too. There is no mention of Jesus outside of the scriptures.
Proof, please. Just saying numbers you clearly pulled out of your butt doesn't prove anything. Look, watch this:
There are over 1 trillion known dinosaur species, and half of those were 1 foot tall.
Yay, I can be a moron too!
Ignoring the fact that I don't think for a second you can come up with 15,000 relevant documents attesting to the existance of Jesus, do you seriously think those 15,000 documents are more than the documents attesting to "any figure to ever exist"?
Are you insane?
Oh fuck me...
What part of fiction are you confusing with reality?
Did you know that there's over a billion documents in circulation that attest to Harry Potter being able to speak parseltongue - are you gonig to believe that too, or just bullcrap twisted into tricking you into thinking you're special!
I've got 15,001 documents saying that I'm the son of god. Even if you had those 15,000 documents about Jesus, I still win.
Mister Pillow:
Coherent it may be, but it's complete bullshit. There are zero contemporary references to Jesus in what we know of the ancient literature; Josephus's work would have been something like forty to fifty years later, and what little has been found in his documents may have been a forgery, as Josephus was quite anti-messianic and probably wouldn't have given any one messiah wannabe the time of day.
(In any case, the Christian sects were purged from Judaism around that time along with the Essenes and a couple of other groups. For all we know the post-Masada records wouldn't have even bothered mentioning Christianity -- it was heresy to them, remember.)
15,000?
Ok. Sure. I guess I can't argue with that. With that much evidence, it must be true.
Show me one documenting source outside of the bible. Do it. I want to see it in the original greek or latin text. Do it. Show me, oh mighty one.
Sources based ON the bible don't count.
Wow, a quick test revealed Google returns nearly 7 MILLION documents about Wicca!
I'd better go worship me some pagan gods quick, by Bellanos!
15,000? Hey, turn around, your pants are on fire, you liar you.
Actually, you're just lying.
Cite actual sources or GTFO, please.
Mister Pillow: Coherent, yes (ignoring minor spelling/grammar errors). Honest, no. There are less than a dozen documents that MIGHT suggest a man with a name similar to Jesus of Nazareth lived during the 1st century CE/AD.
Lying for religion kinda qualifies as fundie, mate.
A. Jacobson wrote:
"History and science and arecheological finds prove the Bible" Oh, wait, there aren't any. Bad example.
Okay, then, the historical and archaeological records showing that the Israelites moved into Canaan from the outside and conquered the native population there?
Oh, no, wait, that doesn't exist either. Archaeologically speaking, the Israelites seem to have arisen from within the native Canaan population.
Okay, then, how about the scientific and archaeological evidence for a worldwide flood that lasted a full yea-- er, no, bad example again.
Dammit, help me out, historians, scientists, and archaeologists! I'm dyin' here!
Non-Prophet, there was one - it was found to be a forgery though.
(not to mention the history and science and archeological finds all disprove biblical claims, rather than prove them)
Dear dumb asses:
The following three sources establish the historicity of Jesus (among others):
The New Testament
Josephus (The Testimonium has an authentic nucleus and there is also the passing reference in 20.9.1)
Tacitus
Also, just because a source is not 'contemporary' does not mean it is unreliable. Ex post facto history was very common in Antiquity. In fact, the 'father of history,' Herodotus, was 4-5 when the Hellene-Persian wars he is famous for chronicling ended.
Kindly remove your heads from your collective asses.
Brennin:
Herodotus was not writing a primary source. (Thucydides, on the other hand, was, because he didn't just pick up where Herodotus left off, he actually lived through the events he chronicled.) All the sources you cite are secondary sources, and all (except possibly Herodotus) are known to have undergone significant revisions, at the hands of people with an axe to grind, at different times in their histories, including the New Testament .
The closest thing we have to a primary source on Jesus is the Q gospel, and that exists only in reconstructed form, so we do not and probably will never know exactly what it really said. (It's entirely possible we could one day find the remnants of a Qumran-like pre-Pauline Christian community with a copy of the Q collection still more or less intact, but so far no one has.)
We do have a few primary sources on early Pauline Christianity -- those letters of "Paul" known to have been written by Paul himself -- but none at all on Jesus. To assert otherwise is simply a lie.
15 000? Please, there's a list of people from here to Pluto who've got more documents attesting to their existence than that.
In any case, I bet you just made that number up, didn't you? I can just as easily say there are 16 000 documents confirming the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and that would be fibe if I didn't have to actually prove it.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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