I Timothy 2:9 - "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array."
The word "apparel" here is from the Greek word "katastole" which means "a long flowing garment. " So, this verse tells ladies to wear a long, flowing garment. That is what modest is, long and flowing. Pants are quite definitely NOT long and flowing. Pants do not flow. I have never yet seen a pair of pants that flow. Therefore, even if "long," they do not qualify as a long flowing garment. And since they are not a long flowing garment, they are not a katastole. Katastole is translated modest. Therefore, if a modest garment is a long flowing garment, and pants do not flow, pants are not modest.
75 comments
Pants can flow. It depends on the cut of the pant. A woman like Debbie who claims to be the domestic type, who therefore sews, should know that.
Of course, her arguement and interpretation is wrong anyways.
I thought the KJV was inerrant in all ways and any other translations, even originals, were unworthy.
So why can't I just take the KJV at face value and enjoy comfortable, modest pants?
You are a strange one.
Yes indeed, ladies, show your feminine shame to the world! If it's not in your slave handbook, and you can extract both shame and guilt from it, go for it! It's worth hebbin points!
I can't believe someone would spend that much time arguing against pants. See, if I argued against pants, people would ignore me. They whine how it's nasty and wrong and how they don't want to see my hairy cock. It's sexism, I tell ya. Sheesh! some people...
Come on, get real Mrs. Debbie! The Bible also states that women should cover their head, but that went out LONG LONG ago. Yes, some still cover their hair (Amish, Mennonite), but most MAINSTREAM legitimate religions put that aside years ago.
My husband is proud of my legs and "allows" me to wear short skirts and shorts and other garments that show my legs.
There are pants that are flowing and cover to the ankles. Mrs. Debbie, wear what you want, but don't preach to the rest of us. We are adults and can wear whatever we want. Get a life lady!
Pretty much everyone wore "long, flowing garments" back in those days. The root word in katastole, "stole", referred to a man's robe. A "katastole" is a "stole" that comes down; i.e., a modest garment that cover them. Mrs. Debbie made the "flowing" part up herself. It just says women shouldn't wear short dresses. The passage doesn't address the issue of pants because they really weren't worn by either sex back in those days. Anyone who says the Bible forbids pants on women is making that up themselves, not getting it from the scriptures.
Humans often wear articles of clothing (also known as dress, garments or attire) on the body (for the alternative, see nudity). In its broadest sense, clothing includes coverings for the torso and limbs as well as coverings for hands (gloves), feet (shoes, sandals, boots), and head (hats, caps).
1) You've never seen the pants I used to wear for dance, then. If I stood with my legs together they were utterly indistinguishable from a skirt.
2) Why are you relying on the Greek when your KJV-fest clearly indicates you believe only that particular English translation to be the only authoritative one? The English says "modest." It doesn't say anything about this "flowing" business you've so charmingly pulled from your ass.
Burqas are long, flowing garments, so where's yours? Also, I'm reasonably certain that Barneys doesn't carry them, so that solves the "costly array" problem, too.
"Alternately, hammer pants."
Oh my god, they get a separate attack action!!
1)But I thought the KJV was the inerrant translation. Why did they translate it as apparel and not as long, flowing garment?
2) If your translation is correct, the verse just says they wore modest long, flowing garments, not that all LFGs are modest or that only LFGs are modest.
3)First you says katastole means LFG, then you say it means modest. Make up your mind.
Skirts are modest therefore anything that is not a skirt is not modest.
Timmy is a 7ft tall person therefore anyone who is not 7ft tall is not a person. Makes sense, no?
Whoops...
So here's the thing. I've said this before regarding modesty, but if you go to a Catholic high school and find some non-creepy way to ask around (left as an exercise), I bet most of the girls will be wearing gym shorts under their uniform skirts. I know my sister did, and I think it's actually required in a lot of schools.
So much for skirts being modest...
Mrs Debbie, get back in your kitchen.
@ Brian X: I know that's what we did at the school I went to. Cliche Cathloic high school uniforms are far from modest... Debbie here though thinks of Catholicism as a cult anyway.
Brian and Roxas,
Didn't go to a Catholic school, went to a Pentecostal school. We wore shorts under our dresses because the guys were pervs who would flounce them up and holler "It's dress-up day!" Yeah, skirts are really more modest... Free shows while walking up the stairs to all perverted boys who just wanna get a glance!
10 bucks says she wears a gold wedding ring, other gold jewlery, owns a pearl necklace, has splurged on quite a few items in her closet, wears make-up, smiles and laughs a lot and has braided her hair on several occasions.
But all she cares about it how pants don't flow? I'm reminded of a saying of Christ's, something about removing the plank from your own eye...
Well...the logic *does* sort-of flow from the premises....but Mrs. Debbie is still batshit insane. And dig the shamefacedness thing...Christianity goes ouit of its way to get its adherents to damn their own humanity.
Sad...and I used to swallow it whole. Beware of dogma...
... Aren't skirts kinda flashier than pants, though? As I understand it most women wear dresses when they want to pretty themselves up, whereas pants are comfortable, casual wear. When I wear a skirt it's usually on a date with a guy, because I tend to think a nice skirt leaves more of an impression than a pair of jeans. (I'M AWARE I'M NOT VERY MODEST IN MY THINKING HERE.)
Mrs Debbie, pants were designed to be LONG AND FLOWING. there are others apart from Jeans. And just for the record, coming from a woman married with a half Greek man, Katastole means tunic, rob NOT LONG AND FLOWING.
So you're saying women have to wear floor length dresses and act like zombies.
And you're possessed by Falwell, then?
Pincer attack!
The samurai kimono, the parachute pants, and Palazzo Pants! Now yer mensfolk can look like they're wearing dresses, too!
*melts a pair of pants*
See! Pants can flow!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
