... is it really worth it to chance the fact that god doesn't exist because if he does you will have eternal punishment?? I just don't totally understand 'humanist' and/or 'atheist'.
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Is it really worth it to throw away the only life we do know we have, to please some invisible, possibly nonexistent sky-being, and then find out afterward that you have been keeping your life on hold for nothing, as there is nothing after death.
You should live a life that you are proud of, respecting others as you want to be respected. Help others because it feels good to help others, not because sky-daddy says you should.
And is it really worth it waiting for a 'Rapture' that'll never happen, when you could be doing all manner of fun things in the intervening time?:
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I just don't totally understand 'theist' and/or 'fundie'
So your faith is based on cowardice. What kind of individual surrounds himself with cringing, smarmy cowards? That's right, a bully.
I can't pretend to respect a bully.
"... is it really worth it to chance the fact that god doesn't exist because if he does you will have eternal punishment??"
Yes. Because Occam's Razor says so. Next question.
"I just don't totally understand 'humanist' and/or 'atheist'."
Here, eat this plate of spaghetti with meatballs, and hopefully you'll get it.
RAmen.
@#983429
Nice one! If you got that BHA bus advert from one of my previous posts, I'm glad. If anything, I'd be insulted if you (or any of you good FSTDTers) didn't use any pic I've posted...!
A thought just occurred to me, re. what this quote's linked from...:
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Why are you so much as contemplating the notion of even thinking that, xAlienx, when you know that not only does God exist , but is a she .
Pascal's Wager. Debunked many times, but still going strong.
Oh, and any god who bullies people into believing in him ain't worth spit. Respect is earned, not demanded. So is love.
To paraphrase the great Douglas Adams, if there is a god (there isn't) and he/she/it is impressed by this sort of wishy-washy bet-hedging, I think I'll just go ahead and not believe in him/her/it anyway.
which God ?
@EllwyenDarwin: More importantly, not all humanists are atheists. For example, there are plenty of jewish humanists, and in my opinion all good Christians are humanists, whether they identify with the label or not ("treat people well" is pretty much the gist of the majority of what Jesus said).
Pascal's Wager fail. Any god who would punish people for honest and well-intentioned disbelief and reward token platitudes is not worthy of my respect, let alone worship, in any case. Pascal's Wager assumes its god is a petty, jealous tyrant, and I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees in that case.
Felix Wilde already wrote what I thought when reading this. Most who don't believe could if there was plausible evidence. Since that's lacking and God is unable to convince them of his existence, it may simply be yet another one of the many human-invented characters and gods. All of the evidence points that way.
Since punishment for intellectual honesty would be unjust, fear mongering arguments are vain. Considering that there's no evidence of the afterlife, it seems that many people sacrifice much of their only life for the benefit of their cult leaders and the hope of a hypothetical future life, instead of working on improving their situation right now.
Moreover, science discovered that we evolved and there is overwhelming evidence for that, and Jesus' disciplies believed the end would occur during their lifetime. The proposed "risk" is extremely minimal, of negligible concern. There's no need to be a slave.
Society can also always be improved and it's not prayer or irrational religious divisions that will solve that. There are actual processes and means to improve it and since the end is not tomorrow, it's worth thinking about the quality of life of future generations, here on this planet, instead of promoting egotism, supported by flawed religious justifications.
Your wager assumes that there is only one God - a God you think you have figured out despite every religion centered around Their basic idea hating each other often enough to kill - or else none at all which *somehow* makes the reality we live in meaningless and that there can be no such thing as good. It also assumes that this God is so egotistical they will make you suffer for not singing their praises no matter how disingenuously, something I would argue is already assuming such malevolence you’re just going to find yourself tortured eventually anyway with no offense required because it gratifies your God’s ego and a reason not to give them the satisfaction.
But what if this God actually values honest living instead and finds lip service to what you perceive as a monster - but are afraid to say it outright because you see them as a monster - much more offensive and a sure indicator that whatever morals they would instill are meaningless in the face of your fear as you take them less to heart than the threat of punishment? What if there are many Gods and ALL of them will find ways to punish you for taking a side? What if the God you ascribe to is even more insanely malevolent than you’re already assuming and an afterlife with them is eternal torture but pledging yourself to them the way you say is the “safe” bet is actually the only way they get their hands on your soul to enact this torture and you’re otherwise either reincarnated until you fall for their trap or pass into merciful oblivion?
That is not a safe bet. And frankly to live in eternal fear, to willingly throw away everything you are and everything you will ever value, to submit willingly to something evil because you’re taking long odds it might decide to go easy on you is not a life worth living and certainly not an afterlife to look forward to. If your God is willing to hurt you to prevent you from making a choice it’s already proof it can’t stop you. It’s not omnipotent enough to take that from you if you don’t fear it. And I’ll take the satisfaction of having defeated an “omnipotent” being simply by living a life to my conscience. My desire to be good is more powerful than your sick vision of God. Every human being can defeat your sick vision of God.
<@Passerby > #125595
And this reminds me of the various conceptions of the afterlife. Some wish for one where they can live something that makes sense to humans, a place where they can eat the best foods have have all the sex they want (primitive and animal, isn't it). Then those who say, well, we'll transcend the human (and animal) condition and be like angels, no need for a physical body or for sex (which then sounds like escape of reality, similarly to with drugs, less interesting for people more interested in what they can relate with, being human). Then you inquire about what they'll be doing in heaven, why! Worship and praise God, the source of ultimate joy, like the angels! Without ever being bored of that, for eternity? It must explain Satan. Like with views about gods, every major religion has its variants. All this indicates that those conceptions have a human origin and are vehiculated with human cultures.
Since I can relate to what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe, they too are conflicted about it. I remember of a young "sister" being very surprised to learn about Matthew 22:30, that the JWs interpret as no sex in paradise, even if at the same time they hope to live in a physical paradise with perfect bodies. She rightly said: wow, that's a deception for many young people... An animal body with food and without sex? That's also nonsense for biology. Then they also believe in the wolf, lion and lamb grazing grass together (Isaiah 65:25)... an evolved carnivore is to suddenly become a herbivore? How will they be lions and wolves anymore? They'd need very different teeth and gut. Then you ask if those animals will also live forever. Apparently not, meaning they'll have sex, but strangely enough, they will not evolve (evolution is a hoax from Satan). :D Finally, they believe that a few humans are to go in celestial heaven instead. Oh, and don't ask if the best foods will include animals. But don't worry, God will provide!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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