*Swimming pool users banned from showering naked*
I think that we are all in agreement here on this issue.
This world is NOT a safe place for children; all one needs to do to conform this sad fact is to consult the newspaper, TV or internet and they will be presented with more than ample evidence of this. And this being the case, while we cannot remove all such hazards and dangers that might present themselves, as parents, relative, loved ones and friends, it is our responsibility and duty to see to it that the children in our lives are afforded the best protection from these particular elements we can muster for them.
In short, no stranger (aside from trained medical personnel in the appropriate hospital/ doctor's office setting or emergency situation) should see a child naked, and UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER should they BE EXPOSED BODILY to a child in said manner. Such behavior is not merely "unacceptable"; it cannot, and MUST NOT be tolerated.
On that note: it seems society continually tries to push the boundaries of what is considered "acceptable", eroding accepted boundaries and establishing new "norms" that are far different from what we are familiar with. In the past decade alone, we have seen what was once considered abominable to be phased in as practically commonplace ( i.e. "gay marriage"). It concerns me, due to the fact that on so many fronts the values that we hold dear are being challenged and in many cases stripped away. With all that we have seen so far, how much longer before they attempt with much stronger zeal an assault that targets children, if not already underway?
65 comments
I've taken kids under my care to the beach, and they've seen topless and naked adults. Most of them understand right away what they're seeing. The ones who ask are met with a simple answer, "That's what an adult man/woman looks like". How is this difficult? Or evil? And to think that my friends think of me as the "prude" of the group...
Funny, how we don't consider things acceptable that used to not be given a second thought. . . . Granted, that doesn't mean everything we used to think was right actually was, but so many harmless things (like the bodies we were born with, and which adults love each other) are still just that, unless one makes a big deal about them.
Oh, for crying out loud, chill out and stop projecting already. In Russia everybody showers naked in public bath houses, and -- surprise -- nobody is grabbing children (or adults) by their behinds and raping them. Of course, though, those damn savage Russians wouldn't know any better, now, would they?
Besides, how are you going to wash your "private parts" with your underwear on? Not very hygienic.
In a general public setting, adults should not be naked around children. If adults choose to take their children to some sort of nudist beach, or whatever, I supposed that is their business, but I have to say...not fundie.
Yes, I am American and we do not generally get naked around our children, FWIW.
Adults with a healthy sexual outlook probably never view naked children in a sexual manner.
That's why I throw up when my ultra-fundie preacher father-in-law screams at his 10-year-old daughter for wearing shorts in the house, telling her she just wants to attract males. I mean, this 40-year-old man sees a 10-year-old in shorts (his own daughter nonetheless), and the first thing he thinks of is sex? Perv, I say.
Many societies throughout history have embraced public nudity without disastrous effects. Neither sex nor the nude body is inherently evil. It's the fundie deviants ruining it for everyone, seeing teh seks in literally everything.
While this is a bit dense and bigoted, it's not really fundie, in my opinion. However, I will say that this person has a very simplistic view of helping children; this probably won't do much.
And, much more simply: if no one is ever allowed to see a child naked, what the hell are parents supposed to do at bath time or when changing diapers?
@Blasphemina: Look I'm sorry but you are a bit of a prude, taken in by societal conditioning that nakedness = sex. Aside from some people being unpleasant to look at there is nothing inherently wrong with nakedness.
"it seems society continually tries to push the boundaries of what is considered "acceptable", eroding accepted boundaries and establishing new "norms" that are far different from what we are familiar with."
In other words "I don't like things that are different". Yeah and we push those boundaries because we realise they were stupid, arbitrary and useless in the first place.
I see no eroding of boundaries, but rather a building up of said boundaries. When I was little it was quite normal for little kids to run around naked on the beaches. I knew early on that men and women looked differently. So early that it was of no interest to me, no more than cats and dogs are different.
Nowadays little children are all covered up at the beach. And we have these yucky bikinis for toddlers who have NOTHING to warrant the need for a bra.
Children are much more sexualized today than when I was little. What you cover up becomes interesting, what everyone knows is mundane.
The sad part of this is apparently this person knows nothing of the statistics involving nudist colonies.
Children raised in a nudist environment have lower chances of being molested, rape is less common, and teen pregnancy is way down from the "norm".
Show a fifteen year old boy a pair of boobs. If he was raised in a prudish environment, the reaction is most likely one of "BOOBIES!" If he was raised in a nudist colony, the reaction is more likely to be along the lines of "Yeah, whatever, my mom has those."
Y'know, teaching kids to be comfortable with all body types can spare you a lot of drama when they hit puberty and fail to live up to our culture's beauty standards. Part of that is teaching them that the naked body is a natural, beautiful thing and not something to feel ashamed of. You don't have to be a nudist, but teaching them to accept their own bodies will do wonders for their self-esteem.
And by the way, most pool facilities include shower stalls with curtains. Teach your kids not to go ripping them open when someone's clearly using the shower.
Except that most children are molested by known people. The stranger in the car with candy accounts for a fraction of abuse stats.
And Sophie...as someone raised under similar conditions, I'd have to agree. My dad was pretty easygoing, it was my grandparents and mother that made me uneasy about myself. And I always did wonder why they were so obsessed with sex....
What, specific harm will it do to a child to see someone naked?
*crickets chirping*
Ah, I thought so. And for the record: nudity =/= pedophilia.
*on a side note: some people do look MUCH better clothed perhaps it's an esthetic thing rather than a sex thing with fundies?*
Also, I was subjected to much nudity when I was a kid (for that matter I have very few pictures of me wearing clothes as a child). Personally (and this is STRICTLY a personal thing) I find clothes a bit creepy. My whole family has always been a bit "meh" regarding clothing.
Funny personal story a bit off topic.
When I was 2 I loved to be naked. As soon as I got home from day care all clothes came off as did my diaper. My mom was napping and I happened to open the front door and walk down the street stark naked to the mcdonalds on the corner. Mom found me a few minutes later naked at mcdonalds. I have never lived that down.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the human body or exposure TO the human body.
Now, repression, that will fuck you up to an extreme degree.
I have a big problem with the dramatic rise of body prudery in the 90s and 00s, and find this news story particularly repugnant. It used to be a perfectly ordinary, everyday experience for boys and men to be naked amongst themselves! WHAT - THE - FUCK is the problem with people of the same sex showering stark naked?!
It's a LOCKER ROOM. If other people's nudity is something that your neuroses prevent you from tolerating, locker rooms and pool showers are very high on the list of places that you should avoid!
That said, there's nothing very religious in this quotation, so perhaps it's not actually very fundie.
What the hell do you mean "push the boundaries"? I've been going to pools all of my life and don't ever remember seeing one where there weren't naked people in it.
What worries me is that I don't give a naked child a second thought other than maybe a smile. Robert is a little too obsessed for my comfort. If I knew him, I would not allow him anywhere near my child.
That's why there are usually FAMILY changing areas, where a parent and child can change and shower in comfort....
(BTW, showering with a swimsuit on? EW!)
According to Genesis, God created man and woman naked, and apparently intended them to be that way.
Once they ate the fruit of knowledge, they suddenly became ashamed of their nudity.
What's my point? Only that their deity created and intended for humans to be naked, and that being ashamed of it is the sin.
Aside from some people being unpleasant to look at there is nothing inherently wrong with nakedness.
Clothing can serve both to hide one's imperfections and also to alter others' perceptions. One wonders whether a society without clothing, but identical to ours in every other way, would show any difference in fitness and obesity levels, and also in egalitarianism.
Aah, I seem to remember the good old days, when kids and toddlers would run around the beaches stark naked, when the teachers in kindergarten and the early years of elementary school would help the kids dry themselves after swimming, when most young children could run around naked in their gardens on a hot summer day, throwing water balloons at each other and play in kiddie pools...
Wait, I'm still in my twenties, wtf happened in the last few years? What's with the creepy sexualisation of children these days?
"Banned from showering naked"?
Damn. Every swimming pool and similar establishment that I've ever been to (mostly around Scandinavia) has had rules saying that you must shower naked.
It's simply an issue of hygiene - you should be clean before going into the pool so that you do not dirty the water, and you should wash off properly after swimming because of the chlorine and so on. To do this right you have to wash your entire body, so you should get naked.
Fucking puritans always taking offense at the stupidest of things and trying to ruin entirely sensible practices.
Okay, I find it kind of gross when guys take their shorts off to shower at the swimming pool, but it's the mens' changing room. They're gonna take their clothes off to get changed anyway.
Tbh my only issue is that the shower room is miniscule and being in such crampt conditions with a naked man old enough to be my father/grandfather isn't something I enjoy.
But, but ... if you shower with your bathing suit on, you won't be able to remove the pool chlorine from all the nooks and crannies*. That's a good way to get a painful skin rash and it's just plain YUCKY!
* BTW, nooks I can understand. But what the heck is a cranny, anyway?
Oh FFS... seeing a naked human body is not going to create the downfall of society. Jeez, why are Americans so afraid to see a naked human being? We're so sexually repressed here that we think that if someone is naked it must be sexual. It's that old Puritan mindset. If the body really is the Lord's temple, then why should we be ashamed of it?
And there are many children in nudist families who have absolutely no problem or hangups with nudity.
On that note: it seems society continually tries to push the boundaries of what is considered "acceptable", eroding accepted boundaries and establishing new "norms" that are far different from what we are familiar with.
Sure. That's why we're so prudish today, when long ago, nobody would have thought twice about it (and in some cultures, still don't).
Moonstone Beach, Naragansett, RI - Nude Beach.
Went there plenty of times in the 70's, it was a beautiful beach, quiet and relaxing.
Never traumatized me in anyway. I'd like to know if it's still there actually.
Uh, Adam and Eve were nude before they sinned, weren't they? What happened to the beautiful human body being a fantastic creation of your God?
Make up your fucking mind.
Come with me to the beach where I go in summer. Men, women and children don't wear bathing togs. And nobody is the least bit put out by this. Nor are there paedophiles lurking behind every blade of grass or sand dune. It's the most natural thing in the world.
But Robert is probably offended that people are not born wearing clothes!
@ Ozzie: I'm afraid Moonstone is no more.
http://www.sunclad.com/pilgrim/moonstone.shtml
Although all this talk about nude beaches has me curious. Maybe on my next trip abroad I'll try to find one.
Re: the OP - I'd be more worried about yourself, Robbie. You're the one seeing sex when little children are naked. You also sound like it takes all your willpower to not jerk it when in such a setting.
"all one needs to do to conform this sad fact is to consult the newspaper, TV"
Heretic! What do you mean consult a newspaper? Don't you know they're produced by librul, homo-gay, Obama-lovin' Nazi Jews?
As christians we are only to watch Fox News on the Tee Vee and listen to Rush and Glenn Beck on the radio.
Being Brazilian, where nudity happens almost ritualistically once a year, and having just got the tail-end of Carnaval right now, I lol'ed.
And heaven forbid you should ever allow a babysitter to change a diaper. After all, she'd have to see the kid's nethers!
I still don't get it. My dad spends evenings and weekends lounging around the house in his undies if there aren't any guests. I even used to sit in his lap when I was a little girl. It affected me not one iota--I just learned that Daddies have hairy chests and little kids don't.
*sigh*
Speaking from experience, there was never anything "mysterious" about sex, that I can recall. Mind you, there was a lot that I "knew" that was just plain wrong, but... it won't traumatize a child, honestly. Seriously.
(Although I wouldn't trust most public changing rooms to shower in, and would much rather wait a few minutes to get home first - but that's just me being weird.)
tl;dr fundie doesn't understand human sexuality, part -32,768.
There is a simple way to avoid kids seeing boobies: Don't go to Europe.
Obviously, this guy's never actually spoken to anybody outside of his own insane little group. Then he'd realise that most sane adults would be utterly revolted at the idea.
So, should swimming pool attendents in the future will be issued with three piece suits (including spats, suspenders, jackets and ties)to wear before entering the water so as not to offend your Christian sensibilities?
@dingo
"oh for crying out loud, SWIMMING POOL SHOWERS HAVE PARTITIONS."
Um, not all of them. The swimming pool near where I live doesn't. I found it quite horrifying when wrinkly old women would shower naked in plain site. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to. After all, it's a shower. Just because I wasn't comfortable stripping naked in front of other women (and I'm still not) doesn't mean other women should have to pay for it.
And trying to enforce all this Puritan "our bodies are evil" bullshit just promotes the taboo aura around it and gives children an unhealthy sexual outlook. It's ironic processing the white bear principle. And yet you claim you want to protect children?
I find it funny how our bodies, crafted by god and originally always naked in the Garden of Edan and all that lovely stuff, are such disgusting and vile things that they must be hidden, for the mere sight of it will steal away children's innocents.
It's the human body, not even necessarily sexual. What happened to appreciation of the human form?
In the 1990s, a billboard for the Tarzan movie was banned, I think it was in Israel, because they considered a cartoon image of a bare-chested man to be pornographic, meaning that by those standards, even swimming or showering with a bathing suit on is sexual and inappropriate.
Lesson learned: In many cases, morality is subjective. Such things, in and of themselves, do not make a society any better or worse.
Where's the guy who posted that Dad should shower naked with his little boy, so Junior can see what Dad brings to the party? Is this the same guy?
Oh, and @ observiNG
In Russia shower takes you. ;-)
Confused?
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