It’s not the contraception, everybody thinks it’s about contraception, but what this court case [Eisenstadt v. Baird ] said was young people have the right to engage in sex outside of marriage. Society never gave young people that right, functioning societies don’t do that, they stop it, they punish it, they corral people, they shame people, they do whatever. The institution for the expression of sexuality is marriage and all societies always shepherded young people there
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Functioning societies? You mean like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan? Most "functioning" societies teach young people about sexual responsibility, treating it like what it is-a normal, healthy, natural body function. Hell, Japan even has special hotels created especially for trysts, including sex toys right there next to the mini bar.
Yes, and that's been so successful in halting biological urges and raging hormones. Why one time, there was this girl named Mary, and she got pregnant, but then this kid Joe said he'd marry her, even though he wasn't the father.... Good thing too or she would have been stoned to death as the law demanded.
"If folks would do their own fucking, they wouldn't talk alot of clatfart about other people's"- Oliver Mellors, in "Lady Chatterly's Lover", a book which made it clear it's better to be a fat pagan than Pat Fagan.
Yes, nothing says "twoo wuv" like a couple of high school kids rushing to get married at the earliest possible moment so they can have sex that's legally sanctioned by the church. When the hormones wear off a year later, realize that they're completely incompatible, and they go through a messy divorce that involves a custody battle over their new baby, THAT causes grave harm to the society.
Young people DO have the right to engage in sex outside of marriage, at least until Rick Santorum becomes Supreme Ruler. There is no law prohibiting sex among unmarried people, except in a few states but those laws are unenforceable. If sodomy laws were struck down by the Supreme Court, I'm sure adultery laws will be too.
I've said this dozens of times and I'll say it again: Christians, people enjoy having sex, and nothing you say or do will ever get them to stop. You've failed for 2000 years to control people's sex lives, and you'll continue to fail far into the future until Christianity finally dies out.
It's none of your business anyway.
young people were having sex before marriage was invented, back when "society" meant nothing more than "these two dozen individuals huddling around their campfire". ergo, youngsters don't need to be given the right to have sex; they always had it.
...and guess what? those early proto-societies functioned well enough. if they hadn't, the species wouldn't have survived for us to get here and be yakking about it.
You, sir, are a moron, and that is coming from someone who is remaining a virgin until marriage. How can you say that adults have not always had a *right* to have sex in America? Do you know of a long history of arrests and prosecutions for people engaging in sexual activity? (well there were sodomy laws I guess but it's not like those could be enforced either...)
I don't agree with plenty of things that people do, but saying that they don't have the legal/human right to it is just plain ignorant. Maybe you should read the Ninth Amendment sometime.
I don't need anyone to "give" me the right to sex outside of marriage. Further, I don't need anyone's permission to have sex other than the person with whom I'm having it.
Please FOAD as quickly as possible.
The United States happens to be a functioning society. We have a thing called the rule of law where you do what the law says, and if the law doesn't forbid it, then you're allowed to do it. Eisenstadt v Baird was a US Supreme Court case, that is, its merits were judged according to the Constitution. Show me in the Constitution where it forbids young people having sex outside marriage.
It's not society, everybody thinks it's about society, but what the court case actually said was that the government didn't have the right to forbid young people to engage in sex outside of marriage. The Constitution never gave the government that right; functioning democracies don’t do that; they keep their noses out of peoples' private business.
In your little fairy tale world, yes. In the real world, however, young people have always and will always be engaged in sex outside of marriage, which is why they must be taught about contraceptives and how their bodies function.
In the real world, only functioning societies like Afghanistan, Iraq and Uganda actively stop people from having sex outside of marriage, punish it, corral people, shame people. Dysfunctional societies like Sweden, Norway and Denmark don't give a fuck whether people, who live together and have children together, are married or not.
And let me guess... Pat gets the job of checking up on people because it's his god's will, not because, like all his kind, he can't mind his own fucking business and voyeurism floats his boat.
Considering fornication hasn't been a crime in the US for at least a century, people do have the right to do it. Society may look down on them for it, but legally, they can't punish you for it. So you're wrong Pat.
"Society never gave young people that right, functioning societies don’t do that, they stop it, they punish it, they corral people, they shame people, they do whatever"
Holland. Use of soft drugs is tolerated in Amsterdam. Also legal brothels in that city.
Holland has the lowest rates of teen pregnancy in Europe, if not the world.
Your call, Pat Fag-an.
...oh, and the 10th Amendment in your precious US Constitution. It states that unless there is a specific law which prohibits (a) certain activit(y)ies, you can do what the fuck you like. [/pun]
Eisenstadt vs. Baird. Oh yes. To go along with Roe vs. Wade, a Federal law - backed up by the Constitution, no less - means that if you so much as think of objecting to such, you're an anti -Democracy freedom-hating Nazi . Proof?:
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Hitler was opposed to contraception too [/reverse-Godwin]. One word: Lebensborn.
Uh, the age of consent in much of Europe, just chock full of "functioning societies," is 16 and there is no requirement for being married.
Many strict theocracies try to enforce marriage requirements, but I don't think you can hold up any strict theocracy as being a good model of a functioning society.
If all societies always shepherded (sic) young people to only expressing sexuality through marriage, where did the functioning societies of western Europe come from?
functioning societies ... stop it, they punish it, they corral people, they shame people, they do whatever.
Hey Pat, back in the times you're talking about, i.e. the mid-1600's, people were locked in the stock for any number of reasons, not just pre-/extramarital sex.
Do you really want to revive the moral code of those times? If we took a review of your life, the chances are very good you'd be spending a good deal of time with your neck in a hole.
You can't cherry pick, Pat. Take the whole package or leave it. In other words: shut the fuck up.
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Well, Pat, societies also have a tendency to discard dogmatic views belonging to older times. Assuming you are talking about Western Civilization, yes, society did perform that function, but it's restrictiveness is lessening as it becomes less beholden to dogma. Society will always have a role to play in moderating the individual's actions, but also can become less dogmatic and restrictive in more enlightened civilizations.
@Old Viking
The societies of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and numerous African countries.
Aren't these the people that are supposed to be in favor of small government? And yet they want the government to police everyone's bedroom.
Who wants to place bets on how many mistresses Mr. Fagan has had?
"ALL societies"? Really? Including the Eskimos, the tribes of Papua New Guinea, the Aztecs, the ancient Celts, the Zulus, and the Easter Islanders?
Well, the Puritans would like to have words with you... they actually encouraged sex outside of marriage! Until the women got pregnant, then the man married her, but the point still stands.
@OhJohnNo
Yo! Don't besmirch the Pagans! We're the religious types that are sane (usually)!
If all religion was Liberal & NeoPagan, it would be great for the world.
That said, your remark's still clever.
No hard feelings.
"Society never gave young people that right, functioning societies don’t do that, they stop it, they punish it, they corral people, they shame people, they do whatever".
And that drove some young people to em... kill themselves.
@OhJohnNo, I'm gonna be honest, I read it that way at first, then you pointed it out, and now his name's just stupid. Which is fitting, I suppose.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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