Some people might argue that we should believe in evolution since the majority of scientists do. But this is simply the fallacy of the faulty appeal to authority. It’s not a rational reason. An argument should be evaluated on its merit, not on who believes it. Some might say that we should believe in evolution because it’s the “scientific position.” But since they can’t provide any scientific evidence, such a claim is vacuous and quite ironic. It would seem that evolution is without any logical or scientific support whatsoever. If it were allowed to compete with creation under fair circumstances, evolution would quickly go extinct.
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An argument should be evaluated on its merit, not on who believes it.
To a certain extent, this is true. But when you have a vast majority of the world's biological scientists who are all in agreement on evolutionary theory, you cease having an argument from authority and instead have a consensus of the scientific community.
Besides, Kent Hovind with his fake PhD is on your side. Talk about an argument from authority, authority that he had to manufacture.
"If it were allowed to compete with creation under fair circumstances, evolution would quickly go extinct."
If the fair circumstances are an oral debate where rhetoric, oratory and all the tricks of a talented public speaker can be brought to bear, then you're probably right. A well-prepared creationist can spew a rash misunderstandings, distortions and outright lies in just a few minutes, each of which might take upwards of an hour to correct. They can employ any number of fallacious appeals to ridicule or emotion, or toss ad hominem attacks or red herrings about with gay abandon, whereas any defender of evolution of integrity could not do likewise.
Mind you, if we instead use the fair circumstances of peer review, where the entire argument and its supporting evidence are presented, and where criticisms can likewise be presented - and rebutted - more completely, more fully than in the time-boxed arena of debate. In those fair circumstances I'd expect creationism wouldn't even come second in a two-horse race.
You wrote: " It would seem that evolution is without any logical or scientific support whatsoever. If it were allowed to compete with creation under fair circumstances, evolution would quickly go extinct."
There is vast support for Evolution in the fossil record and in DNA analysis. Evolution DID complete with the previously dominant Creationism in the 1800s and blew Creationism out of the water. You are fighting a battle that was lost more than 100 years ago.
Jason, sweetie, since the scientists whom you dislike are the ones that know and understand evolution (and since you obviously do not) I'll listen to them, thanks. Authority from knowledge is worth listening to. "Authority" from bible is no authority at all., and can be ignored. Arguments from ignorance, no.....not a chance. We can, however, laugh at them.
Face: You ready, Palm?
Palm: Let's do this.
image
Dumbass, I don't remember a single person ever suggesting that, because evolution is popular, it is correct. It's usually Christians who come up with that nonsense.
You may have been mislead by those saying things like, "this many scientists study Darwin's approach and none have found any major difficulties."
My irony meter just blew a fuse. Presuppositionalists like Jason Lisle are notorious for declaring that they will never defend the Bible, but will merely proclaim it because defending the Bible implies that people have a right to do anything with it other than swallow it like gullible sheep.
In the realm of scientific debate, the moment you declare, as Ken Ham did and presuppositionalists do, that you don't care what the evidence says, you have declared that you are not engaged in science.
Jason, you remind me of my niece when she was 3, when she would cover her eyes with her hands and say, "You can't see me! I'm invisible!"
You are misunderstanding the argument. You keep saying there is some scientific schism, and we respond with the rates of scientific acceptance of evolution. And there is evidence, and we show you it. It seems you ignore it tho.
Now there's a load of shit.
The theory is literally forced to compete with creation under the most adverse conditions ever in conflicting ideas. The creation side not only has no evidence it absolutely refuses it's obligation to provide anything but flat out assertions, on the other hand it demands Evolution be proved not a lot but absolutely be proven to be the only possible way for every single creature ever discovered.
Just the very pretention that they control the field of argument in this way is ridiculous.
If it were allowed to compete with creation under fair circumstances, evolution would quickly go extinct.
And that’s why creationism has never needed to use political means to get its way into schools, right?
That is a terrible reason to believe in evolution. I do agree that it is an appeal to authority and not a rational reason. However then LIEsle continued talking.
Yet biologists, people who spend their careers understanding this stuff should know if Evolution is real and if they accept it there is merit to it. Expecting an expert to know what he's doing is not irrational.
There is plenty of scientific evidence to evolution, creationists just refuse to accept it.
"Some might say that we should believe in evolution because it’s the “scientific position.” But since they can’t provide any scientific evidence, such a claim is vacuous and quite ironic. It would seem that evolution is without any logical or scientific support whatsoever. If it were allowed to compete with creation under fair circumstances, evolution would quickly go extinct."
...and someone's 'argument' is about to become extinct too:
(On the Moon Landing):
'It is a magnificent testimony to the evolution of humankind'
-Dr. Buzz Aldrin
Who is a Conservative Christian. How ironic is that ?
Your call, Jase LIEsle.
"If it were allowed to compete with creation under fair circumstances, evolution would quickly go extinct."
How do you think it became the "scientific position?"
#1759916 said:I would love to see Jason defend his PhD dissertation from a strict creationist viewpoint. The part where the sun is only 6000 years old should be fun.
http://www.wearesmrt.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=115005#p115005
If it were allowed to compete with creation under fair circumstances, evolution would quickly go extinct.
How many times, and in how many ways, must it be debated for you to just pay attention?
You started it.
It's been debated.
Millions of times.
You lost.
Get over it.
That majority of scientists HAVE evaluated it on its merit and found it solid. Biology scientist have ACTUAL authority over the question. And, as there's literally mountains of evidence for it, but none whatsoever against it, you're the one who's vacuous and quite ironic.
It WAS allowed to compete with Cretinism under fair circumstances. It's called the Kitzmiller vs Dover Trial, and the Cretinism promoter was laughed out of court, by the Conservative judge no less. Evolution is still standing strong.
"Some people might argue that we should believe in evolution since the majority of scientists do."
No, you shouldn't believe anything just because someone else does, not even of they're famous; not even if a huge number of people believe it.
You should accept evolution based on the evidence. I know that's probably a new thing for you theists, that "evidence" thing, since there's absolutely none of it in that bible of yours.
"But since they can’t provide any scientific evidence, such a claim is vacuous and quite ironic. It would seem that evolution is without any logical or scientific support whatsoever. "
Interesting how you claim "There's no evidence" when you just conveniently say anything that contradicts what you want to believe "isn't valid".
AIG'S "Statement of Faith" pretty much sums it up:
Cant get people to take you seriously? Obviously its a conspiracy against you, or possibly satan..or wait, a satanic conspiracy against you, yeah that's the ticket.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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