I don't believe in atheists, because their position is logically untenable. If they were honest, they would endorse complete anarchy, because the concepts of right and wrong are as intangible and unprovable as God is, and laws speak to the concepts of right and wrong.
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The concepts of right and wronf are intangible, but they can exist--not as substantial objects, mind, but as mental constructs. Tho Gobs may exist as a mental construct it is intended as a real being, which it isn't.
"I don't believe in atheists".
Waow. I don't believe in blue sky, either, even If I saw it in the most unlikely places(like Edinburgh, Scotland).
EDIT : She recieved an excellent answer to her comment :
"Further, atheists can develop purely pragmatic frameworks for morality that are derived from the consequences of actions done to people in this world. They're just not based on an acknowledgment of some future reward beyond death."
She didn't answer it, but I couldn't have framed it better.
Theists don't exist, because you can't believe in an imaginary god unless there is no god to begin with. All theists, wether they admit it or not, know deep in their hearts there is no god.
And yet, somehow, as a very long-time atheist, I've managed to get to my sixties without once committing murder. how? By the simple application of the idea that society works better when we use kindness and empathy when dealing with others.Atheists don't need to be threatened with the Big Sky Daddy or his Magic Book of BS to get to this position, they simply recognize how society works.
(Sangfroid)
I don't know whether or not it's common knowledge around here yet, but actually, anarchists typically make good use of that idea, just like atheists do. The OP isn't talking about atheists endorsing anarchy, but chaos.
She(?) believes that atheists should endorse anarchy, because "I can't see morals in physical form, not unlike God, so God = Morals."
And isn't it Conservatives who bitch that the gov't is corrupted and should be overthrown?
the concepts of right and wrong are as intangible and unprovable as God is
What's so hard to understand about "I wouldn't like it if someone did X to me, so I won't do X to anyone else?"
Ok, here's how it works:
If I run wild, killing, raping, and stealing, society will put me in jail. I don't want to be in jail. Therefore I obey society's laws.
If I kill, rape, or steal from my fellow members of society, they are less likely to help me when I need help. Sometimes I need help. Therefore, I should follow society's rules.
Furthermore, I don't like it when people kill, rape, or steal from me. I am a human. Other people are humans like me. They probably don't like it when they get killed, raped, or stolen from. Therefore, people shouldn't kill, rape, or steal from other people.
Our logic behind right and wrong is usually "would I like it if this was done to me"? So no, most of us won’t endorse complete anarchy.
Your "logic" is apparently "what did God say to a bunch of desert nomads a couple of thousand years ago?". Which doesn't work that well nowadays, with cars, mobile phones, computers, the Internet, etc. For example; you're not allowed to pick sticks on the Sabbath, as that is "work", and lighting a fire back then was "work". Are you allowed to turn on the stove or flick a light-switch on the Sabbath, or will that give you a one-way ticket to Hell?
Laws regulate what most people think is right and wrong, with protection for minorities against majorities.
WHY do you think the laws of the land are illogical? Do you not realize these laws are agreed upon as beneficial by the masses and not even remotely exclusive to the presence of Christianity?
Of course you don't because you wish to remain completely ignorant of history and deny logic by insisting your religion must be the only source of decency and fairness. HA!
Case in point, right from go.
she doesn't have to believe in atheists, we exist anyway. and reality is that which, when you quit believing in it, doesn't go away.
Laws do not speak to a magical super law, but rather the needs and desires of the people who made them. The reason every society on earth bans murder, for example, is because people generally don't like being hacked to death by their neighbors. It never ceases to amaze me how believers will give Moses credit for something as simple and understandable as that.
Laws are principles for living together in society. They've been around longer than writing, longer than religion, and indeed they exist among groups of animals as well. God, a much later invention by people who are scared of the dark, is entirely optional.
Atheists don't really care if you "believe" in us. We don't ask you to tithe and don't ask you to kneel before us. We are the ones who can behave ourselves in society and try to help others WITHOUT having the threat of hell or the promise of heaven held over our heads. If religion is the only thing keeping you from doing evil, that makes you a lesser creature all round.
...yet, we Atheists completely subvert your 'expectations' of us: behaving in a civilised way to our fellow human beings, because we can .
Secular Rule of Law. We has it. Do you?
Thought for the day: Christianity doesn't have the monopoly on morality, you know. Three words: Code of Hammurabu.
ab·stract adjective
adjective: abstract
/ab'strakt,'ab?strakt/
1. existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.
"abstract concepts such as love or beauty"
con·crete /'kän?kret,?kän'kret/
noun
noun: concrete; plural noun: concretes
1. a heavy, rough building material made from a mixture of broken stone or gravel, sand, cement, and water, that can be spread or poured into molds and that forms a stonelike mass on hardening.
2. The stuff between the ears of Thisoldspouse where brains are supposed to be.
"slabs of concrete"
Concepts of right and wrong are just that--concepts. They're intangible because they exist only in the mind.
Nobody is arguing that the concept of God doesn't exist. Just by discussing it, we're acknowledging the concept.
However, discussing a concept doesn't make it real. Discussing the concept of leprechauns doesn't make them real. Discussing the concept of unicorns doesn't make them real. Discussing the concept of God doesn't make it real.
As for your not-so-subtle implication that atheists are dishonest: I'm not the one trying to commit a fallacy of equivocation to prove my point.
"If they were honest, they would endorse complete anarchy"
I do actually endorse anarchy ... however I do not think you and I mean the same thing by anarchy.
being social animals some aspects of right and wrong are very obvious.
If a nearby person has an axe and starts hitting people with it, thats probably wrong. If he tries to hit ME thats definately wrong.
I am sure you can think of other examples.
I don't believe in atheists
We're here, your "belief" in us notwithstanding, oh, ye of little faith.
How does picking a religion and blaming the rules on it differ from just making them up yourself? You'd have a better argument if God came down here and told us all what to do; but with thousands of different religions all with different rules, you're basically just back to making the rules up yourself.
Unfortunately I do not possess enough hands to cover my eyes, ears, and mouth, in order to pretend that fundies don't exist.
So this guy goes a step further than people who ignore evidence, he ignores the source of the evidence...?
@Goomy pls
(Dyz)
*smiles warmly* Welcome to the club. We've got jackets. Please provide your jacket size to the concierge. Then, pull up a chair, and knock back some of your favorite beverage with me. *fist-bump*
@The Reptilian Jew
None taken. My beliefs are a little all over the place. I base my thought in Jewish philosophy, but I could be considered a Haruhiist as well. I don't believe the Bu¥Bull is accurate with regards to whatever divine presence there is or could be *cough*Haruhi*cough*
Praise be O-Haruhi-sama!
Hint: when I refer to Gobs, it's the god of the Bu¥Bull
“I don't believe in atheists,”
“because their position is logically untenable.”
“If they were honest, they would endorse complete anarchy, because the concepts of right and wrong are as intangible and unprovable as God is,”
"and laws speak to the concepts of right and wrong.”
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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