Mr. Yesterday #fundie

Mr. Yesterday #fundie answers.yahoo.com

[when asked "Why was Jesus' death 'the ultimate sacrifice", considering that plenty of people had suffered more than jesus did, and they didn't know that they were going to heaven, like Jesus did.]

Forgive me, but it was just amazingly dumb. Think of similar dumb questions. "Why do the Jews make such a big deal about The Holocaust?" or "Why do people get so upset with press reports of child molestation?" To me, your question was on par with that. It shows no knowledge about human nature, divine nature, history, faith or much of anything else. It seems incredibly naive. When something seems THAT out of left field, I smell a big fat troll.

29 comments

old comment by Redhunter

I don't think the question is dumb, christians always point out what a horrible and tragic time jesus had to save us.
Now firstly, he is god and god is he and so on, so god sacrificed part of himself, to appease himself. How much of a sacrifice could that be? Jesus did (if it happened) suffer terribly...for an afternoon or so. Then he died and came back in like a day and a half. (find the timelines-it involved friday saturday and sunday, but only saturday was a full day) Holocaust victims watched their friends, family and strangers die in horrible ways, and had the threat of their own grisly demise hanging over them until they were executed, or for upwards of five years being starved and beaten in a concentration camp. Albert Fish tortured, killed and ate a young girl named Grace Budd. He did this many times as a handyman, sometimes abducting children as young as six. in one story he tied the boy to a tree or a post, well out of earshot of the small town. He proceeded-over the course of many DAYS, nearly a week-to slice off the ears, nose, lips and other pieces of flesh from the boy, and listened to him scream. He dug the lad's eyeballs out, and stabbed pins inot the kids body. He eventually died from exposure and mutilation. That one child suffered more then jesus ever did (ironically albert fish claimed to be jesus and demanded to be punished). Mr. Yesterday is a dumbshit. Horrible suffering for a day is not as bad as horrible suffering for weeks, or years. Hell, biblical charectors tortured pagans nearly that bad in the damn bible.

old comment by Redhunter

Matt
Redhunter, I'm not saying that there aren't plenty of people alive that haven't also suffered an unfathomable amount of pain, but to a christian, the amount jesus suffered is also unfathomable, as well as immeasurable, and since their whole belief system revolves around it, and you cannot disprove it, there is no point to posing the question. I maintain the original question's strawman-hood. I understand, and I'm in agreement with you for the most part. But especially since PotC came out, jesus supposed suffering has been a big issue with folks, and they point out how much he suffered, when in fact, if this jesus/god exists, he/they have allowed much worse to go on, and those people didn't get turned into martyrs. The fact is a lot of stress is put on his supposed suffering, which in the great scope of things isn't that bad. But I realize the saving mankind thing is the gist of it, but the torture thing is milked a LOT. I see where they are both coming from but it is an excersize in futility.

old comment by Matt

Redhunter
It sounds like we are more or less in agreement then, although I assume by PotC you do not mean Pirates of the Caribbean (while looking for proper spelling of 'Caribbean' I stumbled on what movie you're referring to, but I thought it was funny anyhow.) For history buffs, its an interesting idea that Paul's Epistles, which appear to predate the bloody and specific accounts of Jesus crucifixion by quite some time mention nothing of thorny crowns, spears in his side, or any of that sort of thing. Paul seems to imply that Jesus was hung with rope, like other common criminals of the day, and Jesus actual suffering on the cross was probably pretty minimal considering the interesting ways we've come up with to end people's lives, especially since it only took a couple of hours. Anyhow the reason for my initial reaction to this post was because I feel like any criticism made against christian doctrine should be well thought out and have some basic knowledge of what christians believe, even if they themselves don't know what they believe. But maybe that is not the point of the site, it is after all under my bookmark labeled 'Humor'.

old comment by SophieEleven

I don't find it a stupid or trollish question at all. I think this is the point s/he was trying to make: Jesus may have lived as a human, but he did not really die like one. i.e., he knew what was beyond death, he knew exactly when/what would happen, and he knew he was going to be resurrected. Since that kind of "death" doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice (just an inconvenience), the asker must feel that a great deal of the "sacrifice" rests on what he suffered.
That's what I think the person meant. Their idea of what makes the crucifixion matter to Christians may be wrong, but I don't believe that means it was a stupid or troublemaking question. JMO.

Mr. Yesterday #fundie answers.yahoo.com

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