[On banning abortion because of the alleged dangers]
I am not talking about doing things that have some pros and some cons but can still be enjoyable. I am talking about things that are like 90% con (or more). Like getting cosmetic surgery done on the black market or staying in a physically and verbally abusive relationship. If a woman *willingly* made the choices to do things like that would you still support her choice? Or would you want laws preventing that?
14 comments
Thing about abusive relationships, Anon, most people in them don't have a safe way to get out.
Also, I'm going to post the reply to this anon on that page;
I will always support free choice. What is the alternative? Locking people up for putting no one but themselves in danger? Why would you not try to eliminate the dangerous thing itself? Why would you not look at the reasons why someone was choosing to do something with a huge amount of risk? Is it because safer alternatives do not exist? Or because they are being victimized somehow and as a result need help, not laws punishing their behaviour? This is such a bizarre ask.
EDIT: As an anon very kindly brought up, why the hell are you claiming that people in abusive relationships “choose” to stay? Being the victim of abuse is nowhere near that simple. People who stay with abusive partners often cannot leave for a variety of reasons, and simplifying the complexity of abuse to a simple choice is insulting.
The dangers of getting an a abortion are about the same as carrying to full term, less depending on who you ask.
And there should not be laws to punish people who make mistakes out of desperation. People who get black market surgery are usually in need of sexual reassignment and have been turned down for it or who don't have the money to go through usual channels. People who stay in abusive relationships do so because they don't have the resources to leave or because abuse is so normalized for them that they don't realize they're being adused. These are problems that will be resolved only by addressing the problems in society that contribute to them, not by punishing the victims.
Also, abortion is a legal medical procedure and as such is nothing like OP's other examples, however distasteful it may be for most people. And the way to reduce abortions is with better sex education and easier access to birth control.
Depends. Are you a conservative? If so, you should regard the decision as hers, and not one that should be made by the government.
People should be free to make their own choices, even if they're poor ones.
"People should be free to make their own choices, even if they're poor ones."
Unfortunately, to the likes of Anonymous here, it's "People should be free to make their own choices, as long as they choose what *I want them to choose!*"
What others said, also define "abusive", let me get an example here: Me and hubbz will sometimes get in the mood and will whack on each other like there`s no tomorrow, at times even laughing while doing so. To somebody on the side it will look as if we`re really fighting while we treat it as a form of letting off steam and a friendly sparing match, even though we often both end up bruised as hell.
Now if some "good soul" would call the cops on us, we`d be rather nasty in our response to the intervention. Sure, looks weird, looks sometimes dangerous and brutal but that is how we like it(it will often go straight to sex afterwards). Not trying to say there are no actual abusive relationships and people in need of help, but that it takes all kinds and before you start intervening it`d be nice to really get to know that particular situation, else you might end up disturbing some people`s fun and then everyone`s embarrased.
If it's on the Black Market then it's not fucking legal is it?
The reason cosmetic surgery on the "black market" is banned is because we don't want a bunch of unlicensed quacks harming people by performing medical procedures in unsanitary conditions. You know, like what used to happen to women who wanted abortions when it was illegal. Since both abortion and cosmetic surgery are safe and legal, luckily we don't have to worry about that.*
But personally I'm really tired of conservatives' faux concern over women's health when it comes to getting legal abortions so they try to make it as difficult as possible if not impossible to get one, resulting in the fact that many women will resort to unsafe and possibly life-threatening means to terminate a pregnancy.
*not to say that it never happens, as I occasionally read about "pumping parties" where women get silicone (sometimes industrial, non-medical silicone) injected into their bodies at private residences, as well as other procedures done by unlicensed "doctors." Of course it's always a very bad idea to trust your body to a "doctor" who performs surgery out of a residence.
The most dangerous thing a person can do is to be pregnant; one woman dies every two minutes due to complications from pregnancy and childbirth. An abortion done by doctors in a hospital is extremely non-dangerous in comparison. Especially as most of them are done with medications, not surgery.
You know what all too often happens with people who leave abusive relationships?
“I am not talking about doing things that have some pros and some cons but can still be enjoyable. I am talking about things that are like 90% con (or more).”
“Like getting cosmetic surgery done on the black market”
“or staying in a physically and verbally abusive relationship.”
“If a woman *willingly* made the choices to do things like that would you still support her choice?”
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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