["For the people who believe god created the universe, who created god? Explain to me how that makes sense." ]
The reason it doesn't make sense is your mind has been indoctrinated to believe the liberal way. God has always been. He is the ultimate infinity. Don't you think its absurd to create time based on how many times the earth has gone around the sun. If science says 14 or 15 billion years, is that accurate? Why do you believe in a magicians trick rather than believe what's real.
God does not need to be created. he has always been.
34 comments
ok, now WHY do you think "god does not need to be created"? why does that make sense? and why can't that reason just as easily be applied to the universe as a whole?
free hint: there's no such reason; this whole "argument" is a giant cop-out.
Actually, since we're earth-based, it makes perfect sense to measure time based on how long it takes to go around the sun. (We don't create time that way; we just measure it that way...)
Beyond that, though, this is an excellent dodge that doesn't answer the question. Have you considered a career in PR?
Go ahead and dismiss the questions as 'liberal thinking' rather than address it. Typical of the lazy thinking of christians.
Once you have accepted 'goddidit' as the cause of everything, there is no reason to continue to learn and grow intellectually.
No one can stop you from being intellectually lazy. Just stop expecting everyone else to be.
"In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?" - Carl Sagan
At least we have good reason to believe the universe exists.
"If science says 14 or 15 billion years, is that accurate?"
Sophisticated models based on a large pool of astronomical data or ancient book of fairy tales. The decision seems pretty easy.
Also, the current estimate is 13.798 ± 0.037 billion years.
AS an agnostic person, it would be nice if I could be absolutely convinced that God is real. But that does not answer the doubts about the Bible. The evidence of cherrypicking other people's myths is glaring. What trust to put into a book that plagiarises, self-contradicts, and is full of mistranslations. Not a lot.
The reason it doesn't make sense is your mind has been indoctrinated to believe the conservative way. The universe has always been. It is the ultimate infinity. Don't you think its absurd to create time based on how many times the earth has gone around the sun. If fundieism says 6000 years years, is that accurate? Why do you believe in a magicians trick rather than believe what's real.
The universe does not need to be created. Ie has always been.
Fixed.
How can that be true? My holy book says that our god is only one of many gods and that he only rules over the Earth. All the other gods created the other planets. All of those gods are ruled over by Super God.
image Visual approximation.
So obviously you're just some arrogant asupertheist. I'll pray for you!
I love how PG's been reduced to whining about why we post things in the first place.
Anyway, standard special pleading. You have to prove why the Universe needs a creator, but heaven forfend we have to do the same for god.
So...yes, to echo the sentiments posted, why does the universe necessitate a creator, but God does not? If God is eternal and infinite, then why can the universe itself not be?
The reason it doesn't make sense is your mind has been indoctrinated to believe the liberal way. God has always been. He is the ultimate infinity. God does not need to be created. he has always been.
Cosmology has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has nothing to do with indoctrination. It's basic logic. If the universe has to have a creator, then so does God. If God can exist without a creator, so can the universe. It's just that fucking simple. These arguments have been around for centuries, if not millenia.
Don't you think its absurd to create time based on how many times the earth has gone around the sun. If science says 14 or 15 billion years, is that accurate?
Why is it absurd? It works. Would you like to suggest an alternative?
The 14-15BY figure is as accurate as we can determine with the verifiable information at our disposal. As more and better data becomes available, that figure will be revised. It's called the scientific method; check it out.
Why do you believe in a magicians trick rather than believe what's real.
Reality can be demonstrated. Demonstrate to us where we're wrong, Tommiecat.
Everything needs a creator, so the ToE and the Big Bang are wrong. Uh, er, except God doesn't need a creator 'cause that would mess up my, uh, clear and perfect thinking.
God does not need to be created. he has always been.
And you know this because ...?
Also, why, if He's always existed, did He suddenly decide to create the universe? Did it just slip His mind until 14.5 billion years ago?
Phillip-George(c)2013,
"all they need is for 96 percent of the universe to be invisible and mysterious dark matter and dark energy"
The existence of neutrinos, massive particles that do not participate in electromagnetism or the strong interaction but do in gravity, suggests dark matter isn't all that absurd. Furthermore, analysis of the rotation of galaxies and the gravitational lensing of certain objects strongly support its existence. There are many attempts now underway hoping to detect it directly.
As for dark energy, cosmic background radiation and other empirical data suggests it exists.
Both dark matter and dark energy may sound absurd to those who haven't studied the issue. However, once you look into it you see it's not that outlandish. Physicists aren't in the habit of claiming the existence of "invisible" things without good reason. While we haven't been able to see them we've been able to see their effects.
What empirical evidence is there that God exists? Is there a cosmological model of the universe that assumes his existence and makes as accurate predictions as LCDM ?
Don't you think its absurd to create time based on how many times the earth has gone around the sun.
But astronomers do not define a year like that. The official definition in astronomy (according to Wikipedia) is 365.25 days of 86,400 seconds, where a second is defined as “the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.” As this definition is independent of the rotation of the Earth around the Sun, you can use it for times before the existence of both.
I find it somehow deeply funny that PG-13 tries to belittle astrophysicists “inventing” dark matter and dark energy because you can’t see them, but demands that everybody believes in his god
At least dark matter and dark energy has some evidence going for it, that is more than one can say about god.
we do not create time, we measure time in many ways historically. All based on consistant rates for something to happen.
- sand glasses
etc
If the universe needs to be created, so does your god. Conversely, if god can be eternal, so can the universe.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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