Just wondering what the truth is re: Columbus; some say he was Godly and a devout Christian, some say he truly wasn't and was in actuality not very 'nice' at all.
If he was a Godly man, the accusations of him being bigoted and cruel to the Native Americans simply cannnot be true unless he was not a true born-again believer in Christ.
There is this growing swell of states who are choosing to call this holiday weekend "Indigenous Peoples' Day Weekend" because of this notion of Columbus being an awful man; I suspect this is just more anti-America propaganda but don't want to assume.
Thanks
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Leaving the whole "controversy" over the name of the holiday or whatever (rename it National Cheese Day, make Wisconsin happy) - how delusional do you have to be to think Columbus was a "true born-again" Christian? He lived in the 1400s! (And the 1500s. Details.) Born-again Christians didn't exist yet !
Heck, assuming he had any noteworthy faith at all, he was presumably a Catholic. I can't imagine RR generally takes kindly to that, but it's not like they have much choice here.
"If he was a Godly man, the accusations of him being bigoted and cruel to the Native Americans simply cannnot be true unless he was not a true born-again believer in Christ."
No, if anything I've ever read from this site is true, then it'd be quite the opposite - the accusations of bigotry and cruelty are more proof that he was a "godly man", especially given the time period. There always have and always will be dicks who misinterpret the point of religion to use it as an excuse for claiming superiority over everyone else.
If he was a Godly man, the accusations of him being bigoted and cruel to the Native Americans simply cannnot be true unless he was not a true born-again believer in Christ.
Wow, total history fail. Epic fail.
Judging historical events using the most modern cultural and social norms is pretty absurd. Why not ask if the sailors on the Santa Maria had their own WhatsApp group?
Indeed he was both a God-fearing Christian (as almost everyone in Europe was 500 years ago), and an awful person.
He also lived before the Reformation, so died before the notion of Protestantism and "born-again believers" existed.
He was also an Italian and not an American, dying as he did 270 years before the establishment of the United States.
"If he was a Godly man, the accusations of him being bigoted and cruel to the Native Americans simply cannnot be true unless he was not a true born-again believer in Christ. "
False, untrue, and wrong, wrong, wrong. For starters, that ridiculous "born-again" nonsense is a brand new fashion in religion, Mary. I'm going to call it a fashion, a fad, an aberration of your particular flavor of religion, because that's what it is rather than an integral part of christianity. Nobody with any knowledge of religion would make such a dumb statement, so I think I'll assume this is a term paper in an American history class by ...I dunno, maybe a sixth grader?
Secondly, a good many cruelties have been perpetrated in the name of god by believers around the world. The bible's fill of them, you ignorant twit!
Someone who hasn't the tiniest clue how Europeans thought in the fifteenth century. As for being "born-again," it doesn't seem to have occurred to the OP that Columbus, sailing on the Santa María de la Inmaculada Concepción was, um, a Catholic.
Another fundie who does not know that Evangelicalism was only invented in the 19th Century.
Many Raptureites claim to believe an alternative version of history based on 'The Trail of Blood' written by J M Carroll in 1931, a man who made Jack Chick appear sane. In it Baptists can trace their cult's history directly back to John the Baptist and so bypass reality (ie Catholicism and the Protestant Reformation) entirely. It's all rabidly delusional nonsense of course but that pretty much goes with the territory in Raptureland.
No, it's not anti-American propaganda. If anything, it's pro-American propaganda, but it's not your type of America, so it doesn't apparently count.
I leave you with a quote from one of my friends on the matter: "The mistakes and crimes may not necessarily be ours, but we must still learn from them."
Judging by the kind of "Godly" people that get quoted on this site, you can be both Godly, bigoted and cruel at the same time.
Columbus was an Italian, working for the king of Spain. How is the notion of him being an awful man anti-American propaganda? He never even put his feet on (what today is) US soil, did he? He only traveled in the West-Indies and to the northern parts of South America.
You know he was a hardcore Catholic, right? You know if he ever met a Protestant he'd call them a filthy heretic who needs to be killed? By Rapture Ready rules, Christopher Columbus is now in Hell being tortured by Satan daily.
I guess they rewrote American history to include Catholics when it suited their interests. A fundie Catholic like Columbus should be one of history's greatest enemies for these people, especially since he never set foot in the US. Go obsess over Hernando de Soto, at least he got to converting (i.e. killing) plenty of indigenous Americans who lived in the modern US, but he did it in Jebus's name (Jebus being synonymous with the King of Spain).
Jamaican Castle:
Real Christians, a.k.a. born again Christians, existed since the time of Jesus. The Christian Bible talks about the born again experience being required for Salvation. John 3:3
That said, Columbus likely wasn't one, but that's something only Jesus would know for sure.
In the name of the Lord,
What most of everyone (except Jerkoff) said.
Also; The reason you're taught "two Columbuses" is due to the early stuff being sanitized propaganda.
Now; People are realizing what kind of guy ol' "Double-C" was and understand the horrors that Indigenous Americans went through.
"Double-C" didn't discover America. He may have stumbled on it but he thought he was in India and was an idiot. And it wasn't even the mainland!
He was so stupid and so brutal that even the King & Queen of Spain....of all people....thought he was ridiculous.
I want to see an "Indigenous American Day". I demand it! I'm a white, Italian-American and I still demand it! To those complaining about "neglecting Italians", I say "EAT MY SHORTS"! I don't want a genocidal maniac to represent me!
Haven't the First Nations been through enough?! It's high time we give them their due! If we non-Indigenous are going to live here, we need to pay our rent!
Columbus was a monster with no empathy for the atrocities his men and the Europeans that followed enacted on the natives of even the small island he actually landed on. Their hospitality and good will got them turned into slaves and their children into dog food. Literally.
As far as I know, there is nothing left of the original peoples Columbus came into contact with. I would prefer 'Indigenous Peoples Day' to Columbus day, since he was a con artist, a liar and a murderer who doesn't deserve our respect in the least.
The Christian Bible talks about the born again experience being required for Salvation. John 3:3
Jesus didn't say born "again" - John uses the Greek word "anothen", which means either "again" or "from above" (i.e., in heaven). Jesus meant the latter, as is clear from his correction to Nicodemus (3:5), who at first mistakenly assumes (3:4) he meant the former. Translation of the passage into English is impossible because we don't have one word that has both of anothen's meanings. So the translators had Jesus at first saying "again". Otherwise Nicodemus' reply about returning to the womb would have made no sense. But that now makes Jesus' reply in 3:5 strange, since it doesn't really answer Nicodemus' question. Fundamentalists have invented their own meaning for "born again".
The whole passage is probably John's own invention, because it can't be translated into Aramaic, either; and why would two 1st century Jews be speaking to each other in Greek?
...and watch Ruptured Retards backpedal almost as fast as Sir Jesus Wiggins can cycle on water forwards , as they realise that their precious Columbus was a Catholic .
Or have they been living in that river in Egypt too long to accept that fact? Because then, they'd be forced to admit that theirs isn't a 'Christian Nation' after all.
'Assume'. Where you make an ASS out of U, but not ME.
Hey, Rapture Ready! I can solve this dilemma for you! Christopher Columbus was Catholic!
Ok, problem solved. He wasn't a Real True Christian.
@ Jerry
I know you won't (because you are SCARED,) but others may like to read some of the writings of the early church 'Fathers' such as Basil the Great, Augustine, John Chrysostom and Jerome, all of whom stressed the centrality of Christianity was on the Eucharist, not being 'born-again'.
Thirddrop:
There is nothing that scares a true Christian within the writings of antique theologians--whether or not they were Christians. In fact, Augustine had some correct ideas. None of which matters in the end because we have the Word of Jesus Himself--the Christian Bible. Praise and Glory!
In the name of the Lord,
"Just wondering what the truth is"
Here's a hint: If you hear it on Fox and from your preacher, it's not true.
Here is some truth:image
@Thirddrop
Well, Jerky agrees with Augustine: a Catholic , so there y'go.
And there goes Jerko again: embarrassing himself due to his lack of reading comprehension skills & lack of Biblical knowledge...:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus
'Religion: Roman Catholic'
...because when those at Wikipedia know infinitely more than even his own 'Lord', then Jerkoid's not the only one who's embarrassed.
If a deity isn't 'Omniscient ' enough to know basic history, that means he's a contradiction to himself , therefore - like your 'Heaven' & 'Hell' - your 'Lord' doesn't exist, Jerkoff.
@Jerry
Filtered through two thousand plus years of copying errors, translation errors, recopying erros, retranslation errors, rerecopying errors, reretranslation errors, etc. ad nauseum.
In other words, unreliable words.
Someone needs to make a cover of Midnight Oil's "Beds Are Burning" with some of the lyrics changed to reflect The Americas and Native American's rather than Australian Aborigines and gasoline-pollution. I'd definitely listen to that!
*******
I did a re-write....
BEDS ARE BURNING (AN AMERICAN TAKE)
From Hispaniola's shores
The time has come
The time has come
(Chorus)
Turtle Island, Abya Yala
The time has come
The time has come
(Chorus)
....Waddaya think?
Oh; About a couple of terms....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_Island_%28North_America%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abya_Yala
Razark:
Nope. Matthew 24:35 Luke 21:33
Why do you keep on embarrassing yourself like this?
In the name of the Lord,
@Jerry
Nope. That's circular reasoning.explicitly written for literary reasons, rather than accuracy of translation.
Aside from that, there's no reason at all to think that the book is an authoritative source for anything.
@Dr. Razark
Well, in that case we'd like to see Jerky try and build a wheel on the basis of his 'never wrong' Bible which states that Pi = exactly 3.
And as I've built wheels when I worked in a bike shop in the past, I'm pretty sure that it's something that even his supposedly Omnipotent 'Lord' would find utterly impossible to do.
Jerko's 'never wrong' Bible says that insects have four legs:
image
Count 'em, Jerkoid.
Jerkiepoos' Omniscient 'Lord' can only count up to four. Prof. Stephen Hawking can prove the existence of at least eleven dimensions
Your 'Christian Bible'. Reality. One of these things is wrong. Which is it, Jerkoff...?!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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