@ Demon Duck of Doom
"The way I understand, the photo is for identification."
Indeed. Identify you as an individual. The very first means to identify a person is that person's face. Preventing that identification is a problem AND it is used as a means to control women in countries where it is mandatory.
"I'm too blind to care. "
Very funny. Jokes aside, a blind man uses his hands to identify people, by putting them on the person's face. Alternately if it is not possible, they use their hearing and niqab and burka deform voices (first hand experiment).
"Yes. I'm American, and that's how we conceive of freedom of speech. "
And it has done a bang job of it for you, right? Now the racist arseholes fell like it is Christmas and you are litterally powerless to call them on their bullshit.
"Alright, are nuns' habits misogynistic? Same principle as hijab."
Yes, they are misogynistic. They are an imposition by the catholic church, to discriminate and keep control. I tolerate them, because they do not prevent normal function in society by covering the face.
@ Swede
"The ones posing the greatest threat to freedom and harmony in Sweden look like this. "
Sweden. In France and Belgium, we have the neo-nazi f*ckwits AND the islamist arseholes. And by the way, this reinforces the need to forbid covering one's face (which is how it is formulated in French law) except in particular circumstances.
"Banning it just forces the women to stay at home at all times."
Hence the need to crack down on the husbands and the groups that impose that BS on society. The root of the problem is that we have let the medieval arseholes take too much place in some parts of society. Now, we need to ramp up the effort to remind them that f*cked-up ideology, even if it is a religion is not tolerated.
If it means offending their feelings, too bad, we will offer them a lift back to wherever they will feel comfortable (spoilers: that destination is generally less idyllic than they think.).
We need to break the ideology. Once we have somewhat convincing arguments that this ideology is BS, we will be able to see those that want to be saved. The rest can go f*ck themselves in Saudi Arabia for all I care, but I will not tolerate their sh*t in a society where my family lives, because, at some point, we might have to fight directly against it and it will be too late.
@ Jamaican Castle
"What's under discussion is a blanket ban on these people choosing to do so for themselves."
Choosing for themselves is under debate (see the example of the slaves who condoned slavery).
Also, we have a blanket ban on people bearing arms, we have a blanket ban on people exhibiting nazi paraphernalia (except in a museum, with due explanation), we have a blanket ban on people going naked in the streets.
And yet, somehow, we should make exceptions for something everybody agrees is oppressive, discriminatory, based on medieval conceptions, just because it is a religion we perceive as discriminated against in other circumstances?
Screw that. You cannot be tolerant with intolerance. Been there, done that, been burnt.
We all agree this part of islam is discriminatory against women, it has to go. Let us try and rescue the women, but if they do not want to be saved, they should share the fate of their husbands. After all, this is what they should yearn for, right?
"But people who do view them that way aren't going to be lining up to wear them voluntarily, are they? "
That's just the thing, right? Some people feel it is progress to take up medieval conceptions. They are like the person writing the I hate the Internet blog, kingjameswhatever. They want modern advantages with medieval practices. When we call them on the fact that this is oppression, they want modern tolerance. Plus, as we have examplified in France (see above), they will try and impose that crap around them. It is not a matter of slippery slope fallacy: it is happening, we have the facts unfolding right under our noses.
I will tolerate hijab, because the persons wearing them generally do not try and push it on other people. However, with niqab and burka comes a conviction package that is detrimental to the rest of society. Who pushes for niqab and burka? Not the kind of persons who will accept that the rest of use do as we please.
