(The 72 virgins wouldn't be virgins anymore after the first night.)
they are always virgins
83 comments
So, it's like Prometheus, hmm? Regrowing in the night so they can be ripped again in the day? Not very good for them.
Anyway, I would rather have 72 women who know what they're doing and are good at it rather then 72 women I would have to spend time teaching, let alone again and again every day.
This is a known interpretation. It might not be phrased in the best way, but it's a known interpretation.
Not that there's no such thing as a fundie interpretation, but I am so fucking sick of veiled-racist Americans dwelling on the completely non-Quranic 72 virgins* like that's all you need to know about Islam. So don't even dare go framing the first person as rational when he's doing that. This is a fight between a fundie and a know-nothing who thinks he's so CLEVER and EDGY for pointing out a Flaw In Your Silly Belief System when the people who believe it at all don't believe it's a flaw because they believe it has explanation.
*I'll concede that beautiful attendants in paradise are mentioned. The number is apocryphal and traditional rather than purely scriptural, however.
Traits that can be bestowed or taken away are meaningful. (Or can be considered meaningful if you are so inclined.)
If you make virginity a trait which can be restored, the virginity of those 72 virgins in itself means absolutely nothing. It becomes an official title and nothing more: they're not really virgins, except they've been officially titled as such.
Way to undermine the whole issue.
Not that there's no such thing as a fundie interpretation, but I am so fucking sick of veiled-racist Americans
I'm sick of every time anyone dares to criticize Islam, they get labeled a racist. Islam isn't a race. There are plenty of white American Muslims who believe the 72 virgins thing too. There are a lot of fucked up beliefs in Islam, whether they come out of the Koran or other holy writings, and they don't deserve any more respect than any other religion. I'm tired of the PC crowd that always defends Islam. Some people who practiced Islam did a pretty fucking awful thing eight years ago, and THEY are the reason that so many people fear and dislike the religion. Maybe it's time that Muslims ought to own up to that, rather than pulling the "how dare you say that about my religion" bullshit.
How about 10 older broads that know what they're doing.
Who has time for 72 women anyway.
Also notice the Ko'Ran never states the virgins are FEMALE.
And of course it's not about (mutual) physical enjoyment it's about power and ownership. Rape, in other words. Muslim fundies are just as obnoxious as Christian ones. More, in some ways. Their colour or race has nothing to do with despising them and their ignorance.
This is a known interpretation. It might not be phrased in the best way, but it's a known interpretation.
So what?
The fact that some people interpret something a particular way and it is known that they do so, that makes it a known interpretation. That doesn't mean others cannot disagree or consider that interpretation of any religious text daft or fundamentalist, however badly expressed. There are plenty of poorly expressed (and poorly thought through) interpretations amongst fundies.
I'm pretty sure this was a mistranslation. I think what was promised was a 72-pound Virginia ham. That way, the faithful could see what they were missing all the years they subjected themselves to the "Simon says" prohibition based on Iron-Age ignorance of trichinosis. Let the sectarian violence begin!
Dictionary.com defines the noun, "virgin" as "a person who has never had sexual intercourse" or "an unmarried girl or woman".
If you're referring to the first definition, then Allah cannot possibly make them virgins again; one cannot undo past experiences. However, if you're referring to the second definition, then your statement is reasonable. I assume, though, that you were speaking of the former.
I like Jeff Dunham's alter ego Walter's take on it:
"I gotta teach 72 people how to have sex? Sounds more like a punishment to me. 72 virgins... Why not 72 slutty broads who know what the hell they're doing?!"
I don't know about virgin women, but I have been with a virgin gay man, and 72 of them would be Hell, not Heaven.
Yeah, 72 virgins. Ahmed gets to heaven and finds himself at a Star Trek convention...
I agree, I'd take 10 hot experienced chicks over 72 virgins any day. Virgins are OK if you're just looking for a conquest, but I'd rather have a girl who knows how to please a man. And none of that "Eww, I don't want that icky stuff to come out!"
Seriously, how can someone be a virgin after having had sex? You need to look up the definition. Now maybe if they rotated virgins, like have sex with one girl and then she leaves and another virgin takes her place. But you wouldn't be able to teach them how to please you.
"According to an Islam tradition, Muslim martyrs will go to paradise and marry 72 black-eyed virgins. But some Koran scholars point to a less sexy paradise. While beautifully written, Islamic texts are often obscure. The Arabic language was born as a written language with the Koran, and growing evidence suggests that many of the words were Syriac or Aramaic.
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/the-great-koran.html
Yep. Give me a girl who knows what she's doing. Now I can understand the desirability of a virgin bride from the sociological perspective - in a society based on the inheritance of wealth and power and with no reliable contraception, it complicates matters if your wife gives birth to a bastard 8 months after the wedding - but when we're talking about sexual pleasure (which, this being heaven, we are) then the choice is clear.
Just remember, folks... Susan Boyle is a virgin.
Does Allah teach them, at the very least, when the should or shouldn't use their teeth?
If they always become virgins then, why not ask for an infinite amount of virgins instead of 72 eternal virgins? As much as popping the cherry sounds interesting, spending an eternity doing it to the same 72 women may get boring. I'd rather have a lot of sexually experienced women, but that's just me.
By the way, do women get 72 virgins as well? They never talk about what women get...
I'm with EvoPagan. I'm sick of the coddling Islam receives from the pc crowd. Muslims flying planes into buildings & rioting because newspapers printed cartoons of their precious prophet? They're just as bad as Christian fundies,if not worse! And before anyone tries to paint me as a Muslim hater,I'm not. I'm just saying that the crazies in that religion seem to be steering the bus & it's time the responsible people started fighting back.
Caustic Gnostic beat me to it.
That belief is a close cousin to the Christianity fundie/evangelical belief of gold paved streets and jewel encrusted mansions. Actually they'll(fundies) receive knee pads because glorifying a narcissistic deity will be all they have time for. Perfect health forever so there will be no calling in sick. Be careful what you ask for you just might get it.
@EvoPagan
@LadyJafaria, This is a site that makes fun of religious fundies, so spare us the whining about how we shouldn't be making fun of Islam, it's a plague on humanity just like every other religion. Does it offend you to hear that? You're on the wrong site then.
Well, one point of view of (sort of) pissed atheist can be found here www.flamewarrior.com/islam.htm
He has some points, but I don't agree with all of his assertions.
That whole virginity crap isnt popular in the west anymore. We have tests to ensure that your children are in fact your children and not, say, the Milk mans.
With that said, sex with a virgin also hurts them, so I wonder what women will be in that Hel..er...paradise of having their virginity returned only to bust it and bleed horribly everytime that rag head gets his urge.
Also, I thought sex was only for making babies, not pleasure.
@1023030: There's a difference between making fun of fundies and making fun of religion. I'll admit this is a ridiculous quote and I shouldn't have defended it, but I really am sick of people dwelling on this one belief so that's probably why I did. But it's possible to mock the negatives of religion without thinking that it has no positives. I'm anti-fundie-stupidity, not anti-religion, so it offends me to hear that ANY religion is a plague on humanity, instead of that specific idiots are.
It's why I usually stay out of Muslim quotes, because for some reason people here manage to mock an individual fundie when he's Christian, but turn to bashing the entire religion when the fundie is Muslim.
And for the record? I'm not falling into any fucking fallacies, szaleniec. It's true that a religion isn't a race and that non-Arab Muslims and Arab Muslims believe many of the same things. But the fact remains that anti-Muslim and anti-Middle-Eastern sentiment are very rarely seen separately.
And besides, what do you do when a straight Islamic male dies, gets his 72 virgins, and they're ALL MALE? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Besides, what does a soul need with a dick anyway?
Lady Jafaria
Religiin, for the most part, IS a plague on humanity. Always has been, always will be. Religion is a delusion, and no matter how many "good ideas" they may rarely suggest, it does not make it less of a delusion. It is moral to be truthful. God is imaginary, thereby basing laws that humans MUST follow or be punished by the followers is IMMORAL.
With that said I reserve the right to mock religion however and whenever I see fit. There religion has no problem mocking non-believers, and I dont hear you crying over that..only crying over us atheists pointing out the obvious stupidity in this religion.
We bash the entirety of Christianity too, so dont go thinking we have some kind of special vendeta against Muslims..so stop with the "we are so persecuted" crap when it was Muslims who gave themselves the poor image to begin with.
Recyclable virginity. Tnat's an interesting idea. What happens if they conceive?
Actually, I was reading that this is a mistranslation. Originally the Arabic language was written without the dot that modern script has. Add to this that only long vowels are indicated by consonants, and you have a recipe for misunderstanding. The 72 virgins seem really to be a bunch of grapes. I think I'd be happier with grapes anyway. Virgins give me the pip.
Mageaprentice
9/18/2009 12:39:54 PM
For the win!
they are always virgins
moonsun
Oh bless you sir, may allah give your mum 72 virgins in heaven. Each one of them hung like an elephant and completely ignorant of legitimate sexual practices. Amen.
I like Billy Connolly's take on this:
"The very thought of [73] fuckin' virgins... is a nightmare ! It's not a fuckin' present, it's not a prize... it's a punishment !any day of the week!"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdNqUW5wwTE
@LadyJafaria ("I am so fucking sick of veiled racist Americans....")
That's really the ignorant, bigoted pot calling the kettle black, lady. Clearly YOUR racism isn't so "veiled".
Islam is a religion, not a race, and it isn't just Americans who see and comment upon how incredibly fucked-up and mysoginist Islam is. It's the perfectly valid and defensible opinion of just about everyone else in the world who can clearly see that nations which follow Islamic law abuse, oppress, and deny basic civil rights to women. Who gives a shit if the 72 virgins thing is strictly scriptural or not? It doesn't change the fact that women living under Islam have to walk around in many parts of the world wearing head-to-toe cover in 120 degree heat while the men walk around in shirt sleeves (and can be beaten or arrested if they don't), are forbidden to drive or travel without a man's permission, etc., etc., etc.
I"M really fucking sick of PC- bullshit accusations of racism against anyone who dares to state the obvious. There are muslims of all races (including white ones) in America, and even if there weren't, racists (or Americans, as you call them) presumably wouldn't give a shit about the treatment Muslim women, especially those in the Middle East, if they just hated those people because of their races, so your PC "racist" accusation doesn't hold a drop of water, does it?
If they're anything like today's virgins, they'll be well versed in oral, anal, and the fine art of the HJ.
Fundie Debating rule 23:
When in doubt, calmly announce that your God can do things that are not only physically but also logically impossible and chide the fuming skeptic for lacking spiritual understanding.
Edit:
@ Doubting Thomas,
Yeah, personally I always wondered if the pure virgins that devout Muslims were supposed to recieve in paradise were the same 144000 Jewish virgin males mentioned in Revelation. That would be an eye - opening experience for both parties ;-)
@ Rev. Dread
Jesus Christ! It would be like Groundhog Day.
Confucius say, virgin like balloon; one prick, all gone._______________Redd Foxx
"Heidi, I need an ounce and 6 cheerleaders." ________________Charlie Sheen
Like Jesus' "death"? he got his life back, in only about a day and a half, and inherits all of heaven and outer space forever . BFD.
I agree with EvoPagan for the most part.
I'm not anti religion, I'm anti fundie and come live at my (soon to be old as we are finally moving out, don't know to where, but anywhere is better) apartment complex. The men treat me like shit - the glares are just shocking! I used to be the kind of girl who walked around downtown at night alone with reasonable precautions, at the apartment I'm scared to death to even head to the garage alone! What is worse is the male children - they will yell at you and call you names before they've even reached school age. I'm all for freedom of religion, but there are my rights to consider as well. In some ways we are being too PC - I shouldn't be afraid in my own building of someone else's religion.
/was really amused the look she got walking out the door with some boxes and her bound and fully functional quarter staff. Should have been carrying it around the whole time. I think a few of the men pee'd themselves.
You can keep the virgins. I'll take a girl who knows what she's doing.
The only value in a virgin, historically, is being reasonably confident that her children are your progeny. DNA tests more or less made that already irrelevant bit completely redundant.
@Elia: Like I said, it was so men could be sure (less unsure, anyway) that any children their wife gave birth to would be theirs. In a society that's (at least in theory) a classless meritocracy with less emphasis on inherited power this shouldn't be an issue, but a lot of customs persist long after the conditions that led to their creation are gone.
Hmmm. The quote and many of the comments assume that these virgins are human women, inexperienced and capable of feeling pain. The way I heard it, they are supernatural beings (think angels) who provide men with infinite pleasure as well as peace of mind in knowing they were never "polluted" by another man.
I'm not sure if this is what all or most Moslems believe. I could look it up, I suppose. But I'm simply too lazy to bother right now.
@ Painful - that sounds like sheer epic fail. I really hope your new place is safer :/
@ LadyJafaria - I usually enjoy your posts, but you're way off-base here. Think of how many pot-shots we take at the Rapture, which has even less scriptural basis than the 72 virgins. If fundamentalists believe it, we'll point out its absurdities. Bear in mind that our mockery is hardly unmerited; this quote is directly about the 72 virgins belief. We didn't see the word "Allah" and start talking about it appropos of nothing.
By the way, like many others, I'm not anti-religion, just anti-fundie. I have yet to see this particular belief espoused by non-fundie Muslims, so I just do not see why you're annoyed. If you have personal issues with anti-Islam/anti-Arabs, take it up with them. We're just doing our job, ma'am.
I'm also Irish, by the way, and I know a ton of us are from the UK. So talking about racist Americans was even more fail, tbh.
I'm mostly with EvoPagan. This site rips into both individual Christian fundies AND the absurdities of Christianity in general. I fail to see why Islam should be treated differently.
That said, I don't think all Muslims should be blamed for the actions of a few nutters with regards to 9/11 etc. But equally, it would be just as unfair to blame all Christians for the Crusades or the Inquisition, and we do that often enough, don't we?
In real life, there's an operation to reconstruct the hymen for those ladies who want to be virgins on their wedding nights, but who've been...naughty. There is also reconstructive surgery one can have on the lady bits to tighten things up.
Whether or not a belief is scriptural doesn't affect whether those who hold it are 'fundies'. Fundamentalism is defined as strict, inflexible adherence to a set of ideas or doctrines. These could be scriptural doctrines, like the idea of six-day creation and original sin, or non-scriptural ones, like the Rapture. Just because something is in the Bible / Quran / whatever doesn't mean those who believe in it aren't fundies.
Great, so it's a never-ending orgy of subpar sex with people who don't know what the fuck they're doing. Wonderful.
And for this, fundamentalist maniacs blow themselves up?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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