Atheists, if you are simply animals where do you get your moral guidelines?
Also why would one feel obligated to obey an imaginary law inside our heads that was created by random chemical processes?
51 comments
Well, first, you must define "morals." Then, you have to study biology and, particularly, animal psychology, and learn that many of these things you call "morals" exist in the natural world in various forms.
Gee, didn't you know we all eat Christian babies, rape Christian girl-children, molest little Christian boys- oh wait, that last is Christian ministers.
"... Don't say society, because Christians are in the majority here in America ..."
And since fundibots love to spout off about how immoral America is, then obviously morality doesn't come from christianity, does it?
There are many things which govern how humans act, from evolutionary behaviours to the justice system. We obey (or disobey) those 'laws' depending on many different factors, such as fear of punishment and brain chemistry (not random btw).
"Atheists, if you are simply animals where do you get your moral guidelines?
Fundies, if you get all your guidance from god where do you get your technology? Don't say the bible, because the laws of physics were discovered by atheistic science
"Also why would one feel obligated to obey an imaginary law inside our heads that was created by random chemical processes? "
Why would one feel obligated to obey an imaginary giant man with a long white beard who lives on a cloud? At least the chemical processes are real.
It's simple. You don't need the Ten Commandments, you don't have to believe God sent His son, who's really Himself in disguise, down for us to murder in order to pay Himself back for our eating His magic fruit, you don't need a bunch of nonsense about not eating shellfish or sleeping with your daughter-in-law. You don't need some book telling you that if you kill somebody, you're going to spend eternity in a lake of fire unless you blubber and and grovel and say "forgive me, Jesus". There are only two rules you need to know:
> try to understand stuff.
> don't go around hurting people.
Frankly, fundamentalists aren't very good at obeying either of them, especially the first.
Don't say society, because Christians are in the majority here in America
...So? How the hell does that preclude "society" from being a valid answer?
To even get a glimmer of an answer, you'd require a working knowledge of biology, psychology,philosophy, history, ethics, comparative religions, sociology and a good dictionary.
Humankind has wrestled with these questions since the time our ancestors stepped out of the treeline and asked, "Who am I? Why am I here? Who are these people with me?"
What we do know now is that "Goddidit" is not the answer.
"Atheists, if you are simply animals where do you get your moral guidelines?"
Xmas Cracker. Where do you get yours? A 2000 year old book?
Dimwits, where did you get your brains. Don't say God, because he/it doesn't exist. Christians are the majority in the US only if you include those people like Roman Catholics, Mormons and Orthodox--you know those people you keep telling us are not Christian. P.S. there are moral guidelines in every country, even those that don't have many Christians--dimwit.
So, you need a 2,000 year old book threatening you with punishment if you don't behave.
That's the only thing that stops you from being a complete monster?
Try a bit of compassion, and see how well that can work for you.
"Also why would one feel obligated to obey an imaginary law inside our heads that was created by random chemical processes?"
Because said law ensures our survival, and thus the people that followed it survived. Also I would like to believe that intelligent people simply want to help others and don't need to be threatened or rewarded for it. Dumb people, like say... Christians, need to be scared into being nice.
And those same Christians (history shows) were against most secular laws. Whilst the laws of the land and ALL the laws pertaining to freedom are secular without religious interference.
I've said it before but: The Christians and the Bible have no laws or guidelines against pedofelia or slavery
I don't understand why Fundies think that "morals" laid down thousands of years ago in the fairy tales of backwater primitives are more valid than ethics created in the minds of thoughtful, modern human beings. OK, OK, maybe I do understand it, but it always amazes me.
I'm making them up as I go along.
Basically, you try to reduce human suffering, obtain slack, and accumulate lulz, and it's pretty much a weighted average of those and I look ahead 7 or 8 moves to see what will have the greatest advantage with the least effort.
No, wait, that was my chess program.
I get all my morals from Satan.
"Also why would one feel obligated to obey an imaginary law inside our heads that was created by random chemical processes? "
I swear they don't think sometimes.
Dur, because maybe 1) these processes are not random in the SLIGHTEST bit, and 2) they are there to ensure your survival and that of your offspring.
And there is no 'law' in our biological workings, a law is a societal demand. And you don't 'feel obligated' to follow these processes you just do. And by saying 'simply animals' you are assuming that humans are some how better than all other animal species. And...
F it. You just picked a buzzword out of someone's argument, didn't you.
Where do I get my guidelines? I pretty much follow, 'do as you will but harm no other'. From my point of view Christianity is immoral.
As for innate behaviours, I'm assuming that's what you mean by imaginary laws, I have them because they were an advantage to my ancestors. It may just be chemical processes that prevent me from eating my children, but it sure ain't random in any way.
Religionists, here's a newsflash. Your book is not the only moral source. Nor is it the earliest source. Or a complete source. Or even a good source.
Morality is a product of an implicit social contract, the details of which change from region to region and from era to era.
I'm doing fine with common sense, myself. Wiser people from the past have provided influential ideas, but the formula itself is simple, and does not need to be forced.
Most of my morals come from this awesome thing called "empathy". It's an emotional response than allows me to mentally put myself in another person's position.
Let's say I really, really like my neighbour's big screen TV. I would like one for myself, but do not have the money to pay for it. I could steal it... but, thanks to empathy, I can look at the situation and say, "Wow, that would suck to have that happen to me."
Therefore, I would not steal my neighbour's TV. Or anyone else's TV. Or anything that anyone else owns.
"Atheists, if you are simply animals where do you get your moral guidelines?"
From ourselves. It's far more practical than yours.
"Also why would one feel obligated to obey an imaginary law inside our heads that was created by random chemical processes?"
In case of religions, it's fear. In my case, just because i've got nothing better to do.
Humans are herd animals. We prefer to congregate in groups. It's called society, and it helps us protect each other and our children. We develop 'rules' to help us achieve this.
Nothing to do with any imaginary stories, except that some of those stories attempted to formalise some of the 'rules', and then the people who made them up, at the urging of their insane imaginary deity, proceeded to break them all by spending centuries pillaging, murdering and raping.
fergus
For God's sake! Can't you asshats understand that America is not the only country in the world? Norway has the majority of the population of Atheists, and their morals surely aren't infuenced by Christianity.
America is a country. It's not the whole world, it's a country. America =/= the world.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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