This may not be very Christian, but I'm going to enjoy seeing what the Lord says to Hitler when the time comes. And you know, killing 6 million Jews isn't even what sent Hitler to hell. The fact that he never accepted Jesus is what sent him to hell. Jesus would have willingly forgiven him for taking the lives of 6 million Jews, if only Hitler had bowed his knee to Jesus.
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I think the general historical consensus is that Hitler wasn't a follower of the Christian faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_beliefs
But it is fraking inhuman to cheerfully believe that he would go to Heaven if he was. (And as a bonus, I bet the RRer believes the 6 million Jews wouldn't be joining him)
"Gott mit uns"
Look it up.
So all I have to do is accept Jesus and I can do whatever the fuck I want and still go to Heaven? I guess I'll go blow up a children's hospital, or rape a woman. But it doesn't matter, because Jesus loves me.
This speaks volumes about your imaginary god: a person can kill millions of innocent people and go to heaven so long as he repents before his death, whereas a person such as myself, who has no desire to harm another person, will get to spend eternity in hell for simply not believing in your bullshit fairytale.
Then why Hitler? If the genocide part doesn't bother you, then why don't you pick on someone like Richard Dawkins who is specifically against Christianity and theism? Not that I support that either, but that argument just doesn't make sense.
"Lord says to Hitler when the time comes"
I know you may be a bit slow, but the time already came, and went...and you have no business knowing what was said lil miss nosy Mcsnootsnoot
"if only Hitler bowed his knee to jeebus". WTF? What is it with your silly xian rituals? Ok. Just tell me: How do I make my knee bow? Can I make my elbow bow? And does it make a difference which knee Hitler bowed? (you didnt say knees....just knee). What if somebody lost both legs in an accident. They dont have any knees to bow. IS that a one way ticket to hell because you cant bow a knee? Or would it be acceptable to bow a prosthetic knee? I mean, it is one thing to be ignorant on the bulk of references Hitler made about xianity. But to make such Cinderella imaginations of physical acts like the bowing of knees.....it is just too silly. If you people quit using such ridiculous ritualistic illusions, you might realize there is nothing behind the ritual other than ridiculous illusions. DAMN. That was a good sentence. It should be in a quote book somewhere. But seriously, all these "on bended knee" "fall down before jeebus", all those sorts of expressions. It makes yall sound like Miss Manners.
Popping in with the unpopular Christian viewpoint...he's right, sort of.
According to most Christian belief systems, if Hitler repented and turned to Christ before his death, yes, he would be forgiven and accepted by God. However, that over-simplifies the situation. The key point here is a belief in the transformative power of Christ: if Hitler genuinely repented, changing his heart, and was filled with the Spirit of God, then the person who had ordered the genocide would essentially no longer exist. The physical body would be there, but the person's character would be so changed as to be unrecognizeable, a different person. If he was not changed, then the conversion was not real.
That's where the "sort of" comes in. ngraham implies that killing 6 000 000 Jews is fine, so long as you also make some sort of nominal submissive gesture towards Jesus. Most Christians, if they tell you that God is capable of forgiving Hitler, are talking about something a little more extreme than just "kneel here and we'll forget about those 11 million lives." It's about the idea of a new person rising out of the ashes of the old. I'm not saying you have to believe that's possible, or fair, but just so you know that ngraham's expression of that particular point of doctrine is not exactly stellar.
"Gott Mit Uns" (God on our side). Ring a bell, ngraham?
If that is your picture of Jesus, then I reject your picture and substitute my own; a Jesus who would like us to be kind to each other, rather than pay lip service to him.
C'mon guys, Hitler was raised Catholic, therefore he was not a TRUE CHRISTIAN and is in Hell. Lol. If only he had chosen to be a Southern Baptist, then all would have been forgiven :)
Seriously though, this is one of the few things about Christianity I actually like. Sure Hitler may be an extreme example, but the point remains. The idea is that no matter who you were or what you did, you are never past the point of redemption.
Ghandi, in his autobiorgaphy, thought a lot of Jesus, but not a lot of christianity for just this reason. His own belief was that one needed to strive always to live a good and virtuous life. He just couldn't see the point of a religon which allowed you to commit any sins you wanted, and would then forgive you them all with a word. How, he asked, does that encourage virtue?
"Jesus would have willingly forgiven him for taking the lives of 6 million Jews, if only Hitler had bowed his knee to Jesus."
Maybe he did. We don't know.
@Gloria
I'm not sure the problem is ngraham's articulation of the doctrine, but rather I think it's possible that s/he actually believes in this simplistic version. The flavor of Christianity that runs through Rapture Ready is very literalistic and very simplistic and I can justifiably sum it up as Jack Chick-esque. It's consistent with their brand of theology for Hitler to be forgiven just by having faith making a few token gestures. We're forgetting that these people also think that Pascal's Wager would actually work.
@Street Sharks
Except that it immediately gets spoiled by the idea that other people, simply for not believing correctly, are going to hell so what is a decent idea ends up becoming an atrocity of justice where Hitler can go to heaven while the Jews he killed go to hell.
"The fact that he never accepted Jesus is what sent him to hell."
*Ahem*:
image
(for the hard of thinking on Ruptured Retards, 'Gott Mit Uns' translated into English is God With Us. ). Hitler even states he was 'doing God's work' in eliminating Jews in "Mein Kampf".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee#Judaism *
I love the smell of destroyed arguments in the morning. Smells like... victory.
*- Pastor Hagee was a backer of John McCain during the presidential elections. He's a right-winger. McCain's a right-winger. Hitler was a right-winger. Ergo, the superiority of Left -wingers, in word, action and thought. QED. Further proof?:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2917512
'God wanted the holocaust to happen, that Hitler was doing God's work in punishing the jews for killing christ.'
-Shirley Phelps-Roper
Completely missing the point that Jesus was a Jew himself. And that it was the Romans who killed their 'Christ'. Right-wing Fundamentalist Christianity. A perpetual traincrash.
@WMDKitty
"And THIS is part of why Christianity is pure, unadulterated evil."
RAmen to that.
And THIS is why people find christianity revolting. A mass-murderer and rapist can go to heaven if he professes in Jesus, but the victims who are not christian go to hell? WTF?
And hitler killed more than the 6 million Jews. He killed 6 million other people in the concentration camps, including Jehova's Witnesses, Gays, Gypsys, Mentally Disabled, and even MORE civilian and military deaths. Even more of a reason to make sure war never happens again.
when a christian person says they "believe" in something and that something is Jesus they also mean "put your trust in" and "follow the path of".
in the christian Operating System :
Believe = put your trust in = follow the path of
As a person of no faith ,AKA Atheist or Humanist,
This is why christians and religious people alike always want to know what you "believe" .
I cannot say that I believe in Hitler and Jesus equally as I am 100% certain that Hitler existed and Jesus mabey 85 % certain.
God does not exist pass it along
Effectively if somewhat unconciously, invoking Godwin's Law in the poster's own opening statement, must surely be a record...
I think this cartoon (from a late 19th Century newspaper/magazine) sums up the infinite insanity of the 'beliefs' of ngraham and all his ilk on Ruptured Retards:
image
With the emphasis on Mental. Indeed, just goes to prove that those on Ruptured Retards and the Religious Right as a whole put the mental in Right-wing Fundamental ist Christianity.
And you know, killing 6 million Jews isn't even what sent Hitler to hell.
And it is comments like this that make me pity and fear you and your ilk.
Just goes to show what can happen when you break someone's brain with religion. Religion appeals to the torturous murderer in those deluded clods who have been afflicted by it. Some other signs that someone has contracted religion include increased self righteousness, priggishness, puritanism, self-loathing, insensitivity to the pain and suffering of others, willingness to act unethically and immorally, if not downright evilly, a tendency to spout lies at any time and at any occasion and the taking of an obvious delight in the discomfort of people outside of ones religion. These are just some of the obscene perversions by which you can recognize the religiously afflicted.
I'd hate to goto heaven with all you religious cunts.
Enjoy your time in hevaen with all the child-raping priests :)
That's if there ever were a hell or heaven.
"Jesus would have willingly forgiven him for taking the lives of 6 million Jews, if only Hitler had bowed his knee to Jesus."
I don't want to come even within 500 miles radius from such kind of idiotic Jebus. Please teach me how I can stay away from such kind of Jebus.
Gloria (stupidly forgetting to put her name in at the top)
@Tolpuddle Martyr
Thank you, and yes, they do. (I admit, I was a bit freaked out posting that, because really, who wants to be defending Hitler? but it is what I believe, or try to, and I felt I had to say something.)
@dionysus
You're probably right, and even if he doesn't think of it that way, I'm sure many fundies do (Which is probably even scarier than the idea of Hitler getting into heaven: he, at least, can't do any more damage. Compared to an army of fundies who think they can get away with genocide if they say sorry after...)
And that, right there, is why your religion is pathetic, morally bankrupt and unworthy of any respect what-so-ever. Remember that next time you're wondering why we treat you the way we do.
"Jesus would have willingly forgiven him for taking the lives of 6 million Jews, if only Hitler had bowed his knee to Jesus."
Crow T. Robot said it best. "This is weird theology!"
I would like to feed your fingertips to the wolverines.
I'm sorry, we're all out of badgers. Will you accept this Jesus in its place?
So Jesus said, "you slaughtered almost as many of my fellow Jews as you could find, but if you kiss my hairy ass I'll forgive you."
Nice. Really, really nice.
Where's that "Fire, go and die in one" poster when you need it?
I wonder if this guy got booted off of RR for saying that delighting in the torture of their enemies wasn't 'christian'. And, Hitler was a christian, albeit a very confused one. Protestant too. Of course, most christians are pretty confused, about reality, for instance.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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