[A pregnant woman posts that she was awakened by her boyfriend having sex with her; other posters reply that he's a rapist]
There is pattern of consent, meaning that if you're in a sexual relationship with someone advances are not considered sexual assault or rape. Show me a relationship where everytime people are going to have sex they have a discussion and agree on it first without someone making a "first move" and I'll show you a couple that has terrible sex.
Yes, it is just more crybaby feminist bullshit. Maybe if they were getting fucked properly they wouldn't be such prudes or maybe it's just those repressed memories of daddy touching their bathing suit areas when they were little girls.
56 comments
Because the woman was unconscious, she could not give consent (because she was UNCONSCIOUS) - therefore, it was rape.
You can not assume that because you are dating or are married that you have unlimited access to someone else's body. No one automatically surrenders their autonomy just because they have a relationship with you. You obviously only see women as "property."
It's should be common sense that just because you're in a sexual relationship with someone doesn't mean they can do whatever they want with you, jeez. I've heard some bull crap excuses for this, but it's just unacceptable to do crap like that when someone is asleep. It is also just creepy... You cannot wake up your partner to ask if they would be okay with having sex then? You wouldn't think that doing otherwise would possibly leave them feeling violated and like they can't trust you?
And wtf was up with that 'bathing suit' comment? That's just weirdly inappropriate. Not that everything else this guy said isn't, though.
Sure there is a bit of an unspoken language that goes into sexual initiation when a couple has been together a long time. I know I've started some impromtu action in the middle of the night (too bad nobody was with me-kidding), but never to when a body wasn't even conscious. I've woken my wife, she's woken me etc. And since we've talked openly about stuff, we have an understanding. She LIKES it when I come after her unexpectedly, but that's just us. I've never "taken" sex from her, nor would I want to. Personally, I need some feedback and reaction. Though I'm fond of horror movies and the like, I have no desire to fuck a corpse. There is no reason that some gentle nudging couldn't be implemented so that she isn't waking up to being pounded on. That could be a bit scary and it's just plain fucking disrespectful not to mention rude.
Now, that being said, this fuckhead is a major-league asshole. From his 'crybaby', 'feminist bullshit' and 'bathing suit areas' statements, this nutless wonder sounds like a sociopathic cho-mo. Right down to his fucked up handle. See you on "Perverted Justice" shit for brains.
Here's a follow up post of his. Note the bolded part.
"If you read the post and her comments she says that she tells him no, and pushes him off. That is her not giving consent. He does not force himself on her, she said he will whine and beg and she eventually gives in. That is NOT rape as so many people are charing. If she can't keep her legs closed in the face of some whining and begging then I'd hate to see how she responds a situation that puts her under actual pressure.
The point is if she doesn't want to give up the sex because she "doesn't feel like it" then she'd better not be surprised when he looks for it somewhere else or loses interest in her.
Incest and sexual abuse is not only cool, it's kind of hot depending on how cute the little girl is."
I have no idea how that last sentence fits into anything, but I'm officially disturbed.
I agree, its rape, unless priorly discussed and permission granted.
Some of us are weird and I will leave it at that.
I suppose I betray the openness of my relationship when I say that at first, nothing about this comment struck me as being remotely 'weird'...
But then again, I forget that my situation (where my fiancee actively loves it when I surprise her with sex, including waking her up with it) is contingent on a clearly defined and mutually agreed upon 'automatic consent' notion in our relationship that I suppose is not particularly common.
Our 'rule of thumb' is that if one partner initiates, the other partner automatically consents except (interestingly, she initiates at least as often if not more than I, even when I am utterly not in the mood). Frankly, this rule has ended many fights, and provided for some of the most intense (and sexually satisfying) experiences in my life... And we both enthusiastically re-affirm it after every incident.
@thisisyou3
You cannot imagine the dreams that come from waking up mid full-bore intercourse... It is one of the most erotic experiences imaginable (And certainly beats a cup of coffee at getting you going in the morning).
Hell, on mornings my fiancee asks me to wake her up, it is _by far_ her preferred method.
IF, that is, you implicitly trust and love the partner you are with, so that there are no doubts or reservations.
@Philiosophe:
I see your point, but the impression left in the original post did not seem to indicate that would be the kind of situation the featured quote was referencing, or thatthe situation that the commenter was describing was anything like what you were describing. It seems you and your partner have tried things and found that they work for you, and there is mutual trust and understanding there. I am not saying that there couldn't be something erotic to being woken up in that fashion if both parties find that stimulating and they know that. I am saying that I think it would most often be seen as "deciding" the other party is going to have sex, whether they want to or not, and are at their most vulnerable. It would seem to me to be a betrayal of trust if both parties didn't have clear understanding that this would be an aspect of their sexual relationship. I was approaching it from the perspective that one party was deciding that the other party was available to them sexually, regardless of what they wanted or felt. It seems you and your partner have discussed it, and waking the other with sex works in your relationship. That's cool...I think just doing it and EXPECTING them to be receptive without knowing or caring if they would be, might make the other person feel like their body and trust has been violated.
I suppose I betray the openness of my relationship when I say that at first, nothing about this comment struck me as being remotely 'weird'...
But then again, I forget that my situation (where my fiancee actively loves it when I surprise her with sex, including waking her up with it) is contingent on a clearly defined and mutually agreed upon 'automatic consent' notion in our relationship that I suppose is not particularly common.
Our 'rule of thumb' is that if one partner initiates, the other partner automatically consents except (interestingly, she initiates at least as often if not more than I, even when I am utterly not in the mood). Frankly, this rule has ended many fights, and provided for some of the most intense (and sexually satisfying) experiences in my life... And we both enthusiastically re-affirm it after every incident.
DOH! Sorry for the repost - I reloaded the thread and absent-mindedly clicked 'yes' to repost form data.
@thisisyou3
I agree with you completely here, don't get me wrong (and although the original post is gone, I agree that the relationship they had is nothing like I describe).
My only point was to blunt the blanket criticism that 'all sex that's not explicitly consented too is rape' comments on this board.
People have a natural tendency to believe that their appetite for sexuality is the only 'healthy' appetite, and obviously- for them this is true. But sexuality is a tremendously diverse human trait.
The key to a happy sex life is to find a partner with whom you are completely sexually compatible, whatever that may entail. This is, as an aside, why I find the whole notion of waiting until marriage before beginning a couples exploration of their sexual compatibility utterly distasteful... It is an absolute crap-shoot, and if your numbers don't align, your in for a very frustrating marriage.
Consent is an emotional state between partners. Some partners prefer to exist in that state indefinitely, others prefer to do it episodically. I am the former, I could not have a happy relationship with the latter (and vice versa). This is simply who I am, and I feel unbelievably lucky to have found a partner who is the same way.
My only point was to blunt the blanket criticism that 'all sex that's not explicitly consented too is rape' comments on this board.
All sex not consented to is rape. Your example is one where you have talked together and given each others consent, hence it does not count.
And though I'm preaching to the choir...He does not force himself on her, she said he will whine and beg and she eventually gives in.
Which is abusive. The effect this has on the victim's mentality is horrific. It's about as close as you can get to rape without actually raping.
In that case, you wouldn't mind if your brother or a close relative takes your money without your consent while you're asleep, following your logic. Or if your mother or best friends sets your house on fire while you're asleep. After all, when you're having a relationship with somebody, there is a pattern of consent.
if someone told their mate they were fine with it, that's one thing. But I'm guessing then they wouldn't be complaining about it on a forum......
But then, I'm a guy, and "Meh, no worries, feel free to use the ol'mornin wood in the morning if I'm still asleep" isn't so much approval as an all-out puppy-eyed "please?".
If the person hasn't explicitly consented ("keep going if you want, I gotta work tomorrow" or something) to this, then whatever your relationship, that's fucking rape.
addendum: but then, that's just because I find its a lot nicer than that stupid blaring alarm-clock. Not everyone would agree, and that should be seriously discussed.
Can we get an edit button working here?
chokehold_lust, putting the 'sensual' back in 'non-consensual'
Okay, that question mark was supposed to be a not equals sign.
Let's try again in ASCII:
Looking at this a bit more, they (chokehold_lust and his wife) are arguing that the woman was not actually awakened by her boyfriend having sex with her. Also this guy is clearly a person who likes to make controversial staments, which kind of diminishes everything he says. And what makes him a fundie? This photo?http://pics.livejournal.com/chokehold_lust/pic/0001p24p
This isn't fundie as much as just idiocy.
Now, I really like how your name implies you're a dominatrix.
This is one of the cases where how the person feels about what happened are everything. There is some degree of implied consent in a long term relationship but it doesn't cover this...
The last two lines are the really disturbing part, and the part that reveals his true unfeelings.
Fucking WOW...on both points.
If I tried that with my WIFE, I would get the shit knocked outta me...and she's a whore!
Maybe if they were getting fucked properly they wouldn't be such prudes
Maybe the phallocrats would sprout a bit of perspective if they were getting a bit more prostate action. Come on, chokehold_lust, if your S.O. wants to strap it on for you, don't be afraid, you might learn something...just don't complain if she wakes you up suddenly. Turnabout is fair play and such...
He's just trying to be a badass and an attention whore. Any attempt to take comments like this remotely seriously are not only futile, but doubtlessly maddening. It results in people like #287470 looking like they're unable to comprehend sarcasm, albeit extremely abrasive and taboo-breaking sarcasm. All in all, it's just another example of John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory , and by reacting seriously, y'all are only empowering this dude to act like even more of a jackass by providing an audience.
Look, it's a misogynist who's never had (and never getting, after that post) sex with a woman!
Being in a relationship with someone does not mean that "no" becomes "yes." Asshole.
Well, I do almost agree with the first line. There is assumed consent in a sexual relationship, but it can be revoked with a single word.
Whether it was rape or not depends, I would guess, on whether this has happened before (if she said not to do that, and he did it again), and whether he stopped when/if she said no or at any sign she might have given that she did not want it.
So, what's really sad about this post is that he started off almost making a reasonable point, but then shoots himself in the foot.
First, this isn't advances. This is a woman waking up to her boyfriend fucking her without her consent. Second...then if you're asleep, and your girlfriend decides to try a little ass play on you with King Dong, I assume it would still not be rape?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
