I freely admit that I spend some time dropping bombs and oblique artifacts just to get the conversation moving, because it's too dry, down, and out otherwise

it's practically impossible to get an evo-monger to admit their true agenda - but it almost always comes out in the end

because the debate isn't about science -- it's about the clash of two worldviews that interpret evidence differently, from different presuppositional frameworks

evo-mongers have long since learned that the 'attack' is on the framework - if doubt can be cast on the framework, the evidence will magically crystallize and create a new atheist

the converse is not true - tearing down the presuppositional framework of evolution only evokes emotional hostility - and it cannot produce conversion - only God can do that

so why are we here? It should be evident that we are here to dialog with people such that when we interact with our brothers - not other atheists - we can fortify their faith against the false atheistic arguments, so they do not stumble or become discouraged

but conversion is not the goal of "apology" and never has been