True Grace #fundie

True Grace #fundie freeconservatives.com

I never knew before I came to faith in Christ that the love of God would one day bring me to my knees. And in that moment, when I was on my knees overwhelmed by love, nothing else in the world mattered....not science, not "facts", not intellect, not logic, nothing....

So many people don't understand that loving and knowing God is the greatest privilege and joy there is. Evolution doesn't love us. Science doesn't love us. Knowledge doesn't love us. Cold, hard facts don't love us. But God does. And it is a love that will carry us into eternity.

62 comments

old comment by Papabear

"I never knew before I came to faith in Christ that the love of God would one day bring me to my knees."
You shouldn't be proud of your voluntary subjection to your imaginary friends. You need treatment, not kudos. "And in that moment, when I was on my knees overwhelmed by love, nothing else in the world mattered....not science, not "facts", not intellect, not logic, nothing...." Neither should you be proud of your disregard for science, facts, intellect and logic. Ignorance and stupidity are not laudable characteristics. "So many people don't understand that loving and knowing God is the greatest privilege and joy there is." Many people are better grounded than you, TG. They enjoy knowledge and logic, and have outgrown the desire for imaginary friends. "Evolution doesn't love us. Science doesn't love us. Knowledge doesn't love us. Cold, hard facts don't love us." They don't, that is true, but we don't expect to find love there. We find our love in our mates, friends, family and pets. "But God does." It may feel good to believe that your fictional deity loves and cares for you, but it is a delusion. I defy you to present any solid evidence to show that your "God" is a loving, caring deity. "And it is a love that will carry us into eternity." I don't think so, TG. It's more like, the delusion of "God's" love will offer you false comfort, while wasting your time, energy and money.

old comment by Napoleon the Clown

@True Grace

I never knew before I came to faith in Christ that the love of God would one day bring me to my knees. And in that moment, when I was on my knees overwhelmed by love, nothing else in the world mattered....not science, not "facts", not intellect, not logic, nothing....

I'm going to refrain from stating the obvious sexual nature of this and mention something else... Try telling a future employer that these things don't matter because you've felt the "Love of God"TM and see where it gets you.

But God does. And it is a love that will carry us into eternity.

And that's why He'll send you to burn in hell unless you're a sycophaunt.

old comment by Napoleon the Clown

@Bible Thumper

I'm having a hard time understanding the intolerance expressed here of people who simply have different ideas and priorities than you all have.

We mock people when their ideas are so far off from reality it takes a conscious effort. This person, for example, is placing themselves on a path to oblivion unless they accept the fact that you need to take responsibility for yourself. Any rational person, religious or otherwise, will tell you that you cannot rely on some authority figure to solve all your problems. Relying on some authority figure is childish at best, as that's what three year old children do. Denial of reality and having violent solutions to things you see as wrong only because of some ancient text that's been mistranslated badly is the kind of thing generally on here. Oh, and we do have atheists quoted on here as well. Minimal effort will find you them.

old comment by Bible Thumper

Right back at ya, there, Bible Thumper. Or should I call you Mister Pot.
I'm not the one who preaches tolerance. I'm not the one acting all indignant over intolerant people and then turning around and being intolerant myself. Since religionists, especially Fundamentalists (of all persuasions), are the most intolerant people alive, maybe its our way of firing back. So your response to intolerance is to become intolerant yourself? There's nothing really wrong with someone having a belief in a god if that is what they want to believe, just don't try to force those believes on of us that choose not to share your faith. Show me where the person in the quote is trying to foist any beliefs on you. It's just hard for us to remain silent when people say idiotic things to try to dismiss scientific research and discovery just because it does jive with their (your) Bible. Yet you dismiss the Bible because it doesn't jive with what science tells you. And that's perfectly okay. *coughhypocritescough*

old comment by CousinTed

>>bigot
n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own<< Actually we are tolerant of this persons opinion. We fully support their right to hold this opinion. We also fully support our own right to think they are batshit insane. Tolerance does not mean approval, it merely means not infringing your own beleifs onto others and respecting another's right to disagree with you. We are not rushing over to Free Conservatives and forcing True Grace to change her opinion, nor are we attempting to pass laws restricting True Grace from placing faith over reality, rather we are simply disagreeing with what she says in a humorous fashion in the comfort of our own website. And we disagree with her because she is putting faith in a fictional being over acceptance of reality. She is going with what makes her feel better about herself rather than what is real. The exclusion of reality in favour of faith is one of the central aspects of fundie-ism, and last I checked this website was called "Fundies Say the Darndest Things".

old comment by Bible Thumper

Tolerance does not mean approval, it merely means not infringing your own beleifs onto others

You mean like the homosexual agenda that is being forced on children in public schools? I'm so glad we agree on that.

....rather we are simply disagreeing with what she says in a humorous fashion in the comfort of our own website.

So dissenting opinions aren't allowed here? You want to be free to degrade people in comfort without anyone daring to speak up against the bigotry? And really....I'll grant you that some of the comments are humorous. Many are just downright mean and disrespectful though. See comment #1.

And we disagree with her because she is putting faith in a fictional being

You can no more prove that God is not real than True Grace can prove He is.

over acceptance of reality.

Don't people like you balk at fundies when they claim to know the truth (because truth is relative), yet you claim to know for sure what reality is? How do you know you aren't just some brain in vat in some labratory being stimulated by a scientist to give you the thoughts and perceptions you have? How do you know you aren't having one, long extended dream from which you will some day awaken? How do you know this whole thing we call the universe isn't just a bubble floating around in some alternate reality? How do you know anything is real? Perhaps what we see in the world is nothing more than our faulty perceptions brought on by underdeveloped brains. If fundies are wrong for claiming TRUTH, then so is everyone else who claims the same. If one person's truth is subjective, then ALL truth is subjective.

She is going with what makes her feel better about herself rather than what is real.

Prove to me God isn't real.

old comment by Napoleon the Clown

@Thumper

Yet you dismiss the Bible because it doesn't jive with what science tells you. And that's perfectly okay.

I pick science over the Bible because science proves somethng true before calling itself true. It uses the scientific method, which involves testing multiple times and revising. The Bible, on the other hand, has been shown false in many things. Now, which do you believe more, a two thousand year old book that says the universe is geocentric without testing to see if it is true, or a system that says the Earth isn't even the center of our solar system and has mountains of evidence to prove it? Ignorant shepherds or people who have studied it?

old comment by CousinTed

>>You mean like the homosexual agenda that is being forced on children in public schools? I'm so glad we agree on that.<<
Ah ha! Yes I see what you just did there, you took my words and then twisted them around to suit your own means! You are truely a master of wit! What is the damn 'homosexual agenda' anyway? All I ever hear gay people lobbying for is the right to be tolerated within society and be treated like normal people as opposed to plague victims. >>So dissenting opinions aren't allowed here? You want to be free to degrade people in comfort without anyone daring to speak up against the bigotry? And really....I'll grant you that some of the comments are humorous. Many are just downright mean and disrespectful though. See comment #1. << What? You mean the first comment ever posted on the entire site? Or the first comment posted on this thread? I found neither to be mean and both were quite funny. >>You can no more prove that God is not real than True Grace can prove He is.<< Yes, so therefore there is no evidence for his existence and he shall, up until such evidence is found, be classified as a fictional being. >>Don't people like you balk at fundies when they claim to know the truth (because truth is relative), yet you claim to know for sure what reality is? How do you know you aren't just some brain in vat in some labratory being stimulated by a scientist to give you the thoughts and perceptions you have? How do you know you aren't having one, long extended dream from which you will some day awaken? How do you know this whole thing we call the universe isn't just a bubble floating around in some alternate reality? << You seem to be using the phrases "Truth" and "Reality" interchangably, please stop doing so. For you see, when I say "reality" I am refering to the physical world, the world which we can feel and experiance through our senses. Truth is an abstract concept most often used in a phillosophical/religious sense to refer to the moral/spiritual groundwork which ties it all together. >>How do you know anything is real? Perhaps what we see in the world is nothing more than our faulty perceptions brought on by underdeveloped brains. If fundies are wrong for claiming TRUTH, then so is everyone else who claims the same. If one person's truth is subjective, then ALL truth is subjective.<< But this only further reinforces OUR position. If truth cannot be known in its entirety then the atheist/agnostic perspective is the closest to a verifiable beleif system. Whether you posit that "I reject all known concepts of truth" or "The Truth is imposssible to determine" you are going with the most valid theory of this supposed truth. We're the ones who say "We aren't entirely sure" You're the ones saying "My magic sky daddy did it all". >>Prove to me God isn't real.<< Fundie tactic number 6301: Shift the burden of proof away from oneself and onto another. Listen pally: The burden of proof rests upon the ones making extrordinary claims, not the skeptics. We cannot disprove God any more than you can disprove the magic unicorn that lives in your pants. Show me some physical, observable evidence for God and I might rethink my position.

old comment by CousinTed

>>Has science ever been wrong?<<
Why yes, yes it has. Except when scientists have made errors, those errors are eventually realized and corrected (By other scientists might I add, not by religious putzes like yourself). Religion on the other hand, when proven to be false, refuses to change its precepts and puts those who disagree under house arrest for the rest of their lives. >>Perhaps someone's interpretation of what the Bible says is wrong, I will give you that. That does not make the Bible or what it says false,just what fallible humans extract from it false.<< The same Bible that says that Pi is exactly three? >>Can you show me the absolute irrefutible physical proof that we evolved from apes, and that all life evolved from one common simple life form?<< This isn't about irrefutable proof, this is about taking the evidence which we have gathered about the world and using it to form an idea of what happened in the past. And currently the evidence is pointing to common descent. Might I point out this little dandy: image All of the above fossils have been placed in order of their age (excluding the first and last fossils which are of a modern chimp and a modern human, respectivley). Evolution may very well be a misconception, however, I refuse to accept your batshit theology until you can produce physical evidence to support said theology.

old comment by Julian

@Babble Thumper (not in bold)

It's just hard for us to remain silent when people say idiotic things to try to dismiss scientific research and discovery just because it does jive with their (your) Bible.
Yet you dismiss the Bible because it doesn't jive with what science tells you. And that's perfectly okay.

Move this to the forums if you want to lose! It's not just science that refutes the bible. 1. History refutes the bible. 2. Logic refutes the bible. 3. The bible refutes the bible. 4. Theology refutes the bible. 5. Apologetics refute the bible. and yes, there is no problem taking the wealth of scientific knowledge amassed over the centuries that stands indisputable and using it to discredit the absurdity of pitifully ignorant, ancient Hebrew mythology!

old comment by Julian

@Babble Thumper (not in bold)

Tolerance does not mean approval, it merely means not infringing your own beleifs onto others
You mean like the homosexual agenda that is being forced on children in public schools? I'm so glad we agree on that.

Oh that's it, you've gone too fucking far this time you pathetic homophobic, closeted cocksucker! Gee let's see, the closest thing to a 'gay agenda' is measures introduced to dramatically reduce the rates of bullying, hatred, bigotry and intolerance in order to dramatically reduce the thousands of suicides annually due to this. Everybody needs to learn to accept themselves. Everybody. Until you do this you cannot accept others. Anyone who tries to create a false sense of self esteem by judging and belittling others doesn't know what it means to be a human being. It is not the 'imposition' of 'beliefs', it is educating people to respect others and become a useful and productive member of society. Oh wait, let me guess - you'd rather listen to your antiquated babble and stone children who talk back, gather wood on the Sabbath or get raped out of earshot!

old comment by Crosis

<<< So your response to intolerance is to become intolerant yourself? >>>
You are confusing tolerance with agreement. You're welcome to whatever crazy beliefs you want, so long as you do not force others to abide by them. That doesn't mean I'm going to agree with you, nor does it mean I'm going to hold my tongue regarding said disagreement. <<< Yet you dismiss the Bible because it doesn't jive with what science tells you. And that's perfectly okay. >>> Yes, it is. Because science is observable and testable - if it's wrong, someone will find out and be able to prove it so, and it will change. <<< You mean like the homosexual agenda that is being forced on children in public schools? >>> Including college, I've been in public schools for the past sixteen years. There is no "homosexual agenda" there. I suspect the source of your statement is the confusion you have between "tolerance" and "agreement" again. <<< So dissenting opinions aren't allowed here? >>> They are allowed, if for no other reason than they have never yet helped a person's case. <<< You can no more prove that God is not real than True Grace can prove He is. >>> The logical inconsistencies in the Biblical description of God make it far more likely that said God does not exist. We can't prove it with 100% certainty, but nothing ever can be. <<< How do you know you aren't just some brain in vat in some labratory being stimulated by a scientist to give you the thoughts and perceptions you have? How do you know you aren't having one, long extended dream from which you will some day awaken? How do you know this whole thing we call the universe isn't just a bubble floating around in some alternate reality? >>> We don't, but none of those possibilities need be given any serious consideration because there is no way to tell the difference between them and the scenario where this is reality. Occam's Razor: all else being equal, the simplest (in terms of fewest entities) explanation is usually the best one. <<< Can you show me the absolute irrefutible physical proof that we evolved from apes, and that all life evolved from one common simple life form? >>> No. Nothing in science is absolute; all theories are subject to revision if further data requires it. (Newton's laws are a good example of this - until you get to high energy or extremely small distances, they work great, but at the extremes some modification is needed.) Evolution as a whole is as well established as just about any theory in existence. It's telling that an entire discipline of science (biology) relies heavily on it (nothing we know about biology makes any sense without it), and no data has come up to cast any reasonable doubt on the theory. The exact timeline and "family tree" of all species is considerably less certain (it's possible, for instance, that life started independently twice and branched out in different directions from each - though if this were true you would probably see a sharper division between the descendants of each), but the basic mechanism of evolution, and the fact that all life could very easily have come about from a single common ancestor, are as proven as anything can be. [I say "could have" because we can't establish for certain that it did unless someone invents a time machine and goes back and watches. But any other hypothesis requires more unproven entities and explains no more data, so they can safely be rejected until such time as other data requires them.] <<< Has science ever been wrong? >>> Not nearly as often as the Bible ... and when science is wrong, it has invariably been other scientists who prove it. (The Newton example above bears repeating.) <<< Guys, come on. We're so being trolled. >>> I'm pretty sure Bible Thumper is for real, sadly. I know he's been around before, and I think he's been quoted too.

old comment by Bible Thumper

Guys, come on. We're so being trolled.

Why? Because I don't agree with you? Good grief...don't drink the Kool Aid around here! No, you are not being "trolled". I have posted here several times before. But I do find it curious that everyone is in such a tizzy. You act as if no one has ever pointed out your hypocrisy before. I honestly didn't intend to cause an uproar. Although it does astonish me that you all seem to think you should be able to mock and degrade and make generalizations about whole groups of people and they are just supposed to be quiet and take the abuse. Aren't you the big proponents of free speech? Or is it only free if you agree with it?

old comment by Crosis

<<< But I do find it curious that everyone is in such a tizzy. You act as if no one has ever pointed out your hypocrisy before. >>>
Mind actually pointing out some hypocrisy? Your only example so far isn't even close. <<< Although it does astonish me that you all seem to think you should be able to mock and degrade and make generalizations about whole groups of people and they are just supposed to be quiet and take the abuse. >>> You still don't get it, do you? We aren't requiring you to sit there and take it. If we were, your posts would have been deleted. As it stands, you're welcome to try to make your case. The main reason we advise you against it is Rule #1 of Holes: Stop digging. As for the other parts, I won't pretend I don't mock people who deserve it, but I try to avoid the generalizations (I'm not perfect about that, but no one is).

old comment by Bible Thumper

The main reason we advise you against it is Rule #1 of Holes: Stop digging.

I'm not the one digging. It has already been admitted that science can be wrong and that there is no irrefutible proof that we ever evolved from apes or any simple common life form. You [collective you] have shown your hypocrisy over your indignation when people disapprove of homosexuals, yet you have no problem showing yor utter disdain for fundamentalists. You've shown your cult-like mentality when you consistently pat each other on the back and high five each other (no doubt thinking you are evolution's gift to clever witticisms), yet when people disagree with you, they are labeled trolls. You have no problem having faith in something as completely fallible and imperfect as science, yet you ridicule the faith of others who believe differently....chiding them for having faith in something you deem fallible and imperfect. You scoff at quotes that advocate killing, yet most of you no doubt support a woman's "right" to mutilate and murder her own unborn child. You claim to be morally superior and tolerant, yet you have no problem hurling cruel insults and bigoted rhetoric freely. Hypocrisy, thy name is FSTDT. Apparently without God in your lives, you must create a false sense of worth by exalting yourselves and putting others down. And with that, I will leave you to your collective fundie obesession. For people who claim to dislike fundies, you sure spend a lot of time thinking about them.

old comment by Julian

Dude - "CAN" be wrong! As opposed to the bible which IS wrong! Furthermore, there is indisputable evidence, which is NOT wrong which backs up our claim, whereas there is NOTHING in the babble that can possibly be correct! NOTHING!
Fuck of with your stupid argument from ignorance. (I don't know therefore we can't discount the impossible - well get off your fucking ignorant retarded ass and have a look, because the answers are out there plain as fucking day! Just because you've got an answer you like that allows you to hate gays and bask in your own superiority doesn't mean that it's anything more than the saddest of delusions!) A troll is someone who argues for the sake of arguing - they're giving you the benefit of the doubt, believing no one can be this back assed and unenlightened. Frankly however, I'm quite prepared to believe you're that fucked in the head!

old comment by Crosis

<<< It has already been admitted that science can be wrong and that there is no irrefutible proof that we ever evolved from apes or any simple common life form. >>>
There is no irrefutable proof of *anything*. Science does not deal in 100% certainty, only 99.999999999999...% (the nines extending for a very long time but not to infinity). <<< You [collective you] have shown your hypocrisy over your indignation when people disapprove of homosexuals, yet you have no problem showing yor utter disdain for fundamentalists. >>> Fundamentalists have a negative impact on others' lives by attempting to force others to live by the fundies' beliefs. Homosexuals do not. A rather important difference, and one that easily refutes the suggestion of hypocrisy. <<< You've shown your cult-like mentality when you consistently pat each other on the back and high five each other (no doubt thinking you are evolution's gift to clever witticisms), yet when people disagree with you, they are labeled trolls. >>> I don't like the constant labeling of trolls, but a lot of it comes from the fact that some of these posts are so batshit crazy that it's difficult to believe that someone could actually believe what they wrote. (It's known as Poe's Law: without the use of a smiley or some other sort of overt sign, it's impossible to tell a sufficiently good parody of fundamentalism from the real thing.) <<< You have no problem having faith in something as completely fallible and imperfect as science, yet you ridicule the faith of others who believe differently....chiding them for having faith in something you deem fallible and imperfect. >>> There are degrees of imperfection. Science is usually right, and when it isn't, it's the scientists themselves that discover it. Most of the claims of religion are completely unverifiable, and those that *can* be tested have invariably failed. Again, not hypocrisy. <<< You scoff at quotes that advocate killing, yet most of you no doubt support a woman's "right" to mutilate and murder her own unborn child. >>> Abortion is a difficult issue, but early on it has no capacity to feel pain, no self-awareness, absolutely nothing that could make it morally relevant under any consistent theory of ethics (unless you're willing to go so far as labeling the use of antibiotics as murder). The people who have been quoted here as advocating killing have chosen targets that are self-aware, are able to feel pain, and are therefore morally relevant. Again, no hypocrisy. <<< You claim to be morally superior and tolerant, yet you have no problem hurling cruel insults and bigoted rhetoric freely. >>> You are still confusing tolerance with agreement. Some of the insults are occasionally a bit over the top, though one who advocates theocracy or murder richly deserves to be insulted. Bigotry in the comments here is extremely rare, though - we are certainly aware that not all Christians (nor all Republicans) are as crazy as the people quoted here (thank whatever deity you happen to worship), and our ridicule is directed not at those entire groups but at those members of the group who deserve it. Occasionally we aren't as clear about this as we could be, but nobody's perfect. <<< Apparently without God in your lives, you must create a false sense of worth by exalting yourselves and putting others down. >>> No, I come here to remind myself that there are people who want to see the return of the Dark Ages, and why they must not be permitted to succeed.

old comment by CousinTed

>>I'm not the one digging.<<
Dig up stupid! >>It has already been admitted that science can be wrong and that there is no irrefutible proof that we ever evolved from apes or any simple common life form.<< Yes, there is room for reasonable doubt, that doesn't mean we have blind faith you moron. >>You [collective you] have shown your hypocrisy over your indignation when people disapprove of homosexuals, yet you have no problem showing yor utter disdain for fundamentalists.<< Have we attempted to pass laws outlawing fundamentalism? Do we think all fundies should be shot? Do we wish to impose upon the rights of fundies? What part of "Tollerence does not equal acceptence" do you not comprehend? >>You've shown your cult-like mentality when you consistently pat each other on the back and high five each other (no doubt thinking you are evolution's gift to clever witticisms), yet when people disagree with you, they are labeled trolls.<< You were labelled a troll because you came here solely to cause trouble. You are not here to try and have any sort of meaningful debate, you are not here for friendly conversation, you are here to insult us and stir up shit, hence you are a troll. >>You have no problem having faith in something as completely fallible and imperfect as science, yet you ridicule the faith of others who believe differently....chiding them for having faith in something you deem fallible and imperfect.<< Have you been reading anything anyone else has posted? We have "faith" in science because it has physical evidence to back its claims and is willing to re-establish its position if it is proven to be wrong. You also seem to think that everyone on here is either an atheist or a naturalist. Wrong. We have a small but friendly population of theists here with us (example: Skyfire) >>You scoff at quotes that advocate killing, yet most of you no doubt support a woman's "right" to mutilate and murder her own unborn child.<< Whooo, bringing in the big abortion debate! Listen, I personally think that the rights of a living, breathing woman outweigh the rights of a small clump of cells which will one day form into a person. I do not advocate abortion, hoever I support its legality. I do this for the simple reason that: Even if abortion were illegal it would still be practiced, it would just be done in considerably more unsafe conditions and would become a hazard to those women seeking it. Thus, to save the lives of actual women, I support the legality of abortion. That does not mean I recommend abortion, if a friend of mine was pregnant and could give birth to the child without any physical/mental complications I would advice her to put the child up for adoption. Tell, me: Do you support the death penalty? >>You claim to be morally superior and tolerant,<< Whoever said anything about morally superior? I would say I am more tolerent than a number of people, what with supporting equal rights for homosexuals and people of different races. >>yet you have no problem hurling cruel insults and bigoted rhetoric freely.<< Care to point out some examples? We aren't infringing upon your freedoms are we? We aren't going over to your boards to attack you, are we? We aren't banning your sorry ass from our website are we? When did disagreeing with someone's rhetoric become bigotry? >>Hypocrisy, thy name is FSTDT.<< Stupidity, thy name is Bible Thumper. Awesome, thy name is CousinTed (See, I can play this declaration game too!) >>Apparently without God in your lives, you must create a false sense of worth by exalting yourselves and putting others down.<< 1. We have a small, but enjoyable population of theists amongst us 2. The irony present in this statement is overwhelming >>And with that, I will leave you to your collective fundie obesession.<< Internet debate tactic number 404: When your opponents have backed you against the wall, declare yourself TEH WINNAH! and leave. >>For people who claim to dislike fundies, you sure spend a lot of time thinking about them.<< For someone who claims to dislike us,, you sure do spend an awful lot of time on our website. For someone who claims to dislike homosexuals, you sure do spend a lot of time talking about them...

old comment by Redhunter

Napoleon the Clown said:
"I've been happier since becoming atheist than when I was a Christian. No void to fill in my life." Amen brother (irony intentional)! It's funny how the social oppression and mental restraints of worshipping the "loving god of mercy" coincided with the darkest and most suicidal-thought-ridden part of my life. Since kicking the bible I've been healthier, happier, more productive, I'm doing what I like to do, furthering my knowledge and abilities, not fearing the future, and I work a job that I love for the first time ever! It is amazing what a difference shrugging off the weight of religion has made. I have friends that don't drink, I drink occasionally but I used to drink a lot (when I was christian, oddly enough!), and I know some complete alcoholics. Some people need booze, and use it as a crutch to get by. My friend that doesn't like to drink, will probably never become an alcoholic. If he tried to force himself to become one, that's what I would liken my religious experience to. I was trying to force myself to accept something as a crutch that I had no use for. I didnt need the mysterious comfort of someone who watches me but doesn't lift a hand to help. I can imagine lots of gods in my head that don't exist and don't help me. Who cares? Dropping that bullshit freed my mind to be more concerned with things I can do to better myself and make me happy. God ain't doing it. And if he were helping me get a loan or finding me a new car, I would feel strange considering that thousands of children are dying from starvation every day. Millions die from something so simple that a vaccination or some food would keep them alive. The more I learn about religion and specifically christianity, I realize how hard of a team it was to keep supporting.

old comment by Zipperback

Bible Thumper, you are taking advantage of the benefits of being wrong and evil. You are under the assumption that tolerance or peace must be taken to extremes, to the point where they are unable to preserve themselves. A tolerant society must draw the line at those who will destroy it with intolerance. A peaceful society may be forced to use force against those who would destroy it with violence. This problem is so integral to the philosophy of a just society that it goes beyond hypocrisy. It is paradox. Life is full of paradoxes. Parodoxes are the lubricant that keeps existence running.
That definition of bigot you dug up is really open to interpretation. In fact, it's a piece of shit. Is it intolerant of another's opinion to point out it's glaring logical errors, dispute it's utter lies, criticize it's ethical repugnance or to laugh at it's inherent stupidity and irony? Homsar may have the opinion that he was raised by a cup of coffee and that he's a million ladies tall. If laughing at that opinion makes me a bigot, then so be it. "Archeology is the search for fact, not truth. If it's truth you're interested in Dr. Tiree's philosophy class is down the hall." -Indiana Jones That sums it up nicely and it hold true for all types of science. People believe in science because they accept the facts. People accept the facts because they are consistent with other facts, logic, experience, data and evidence. Your pot-headed possibilities of a completely false reality are not impossible, they just have no meaning. They're a cop-out, an attempt assert a blanket ignorance of all existence. You attempt to make scientific efforts to fight ignorance appear meaningless in order to put your own life of embracing igornace on equal level. Of course Indiana Jones also said "Solid gold idol... big bag of sand... Hm...I need less sand!" So take it as you will. Disprove God? Let's look at the hard evidence for God's existence. Aaaaand we're done. Due to his supernatural attributes God can magic, conspiracy and bullshit his way out of any evidence against him. So in this facet God has the same line of evidence refuting and supporting him as Krishna, kamis, Xenu, faeries, leprechauns, Loch Ness Monsters, the chupacabra, Care Bears, werewolves, the International Jewish Conspiracy and the car that runs on seawater. Let's just say God exists exactly as much as all of those things. You want irrefutable evidence of homosapien evolution? Well first off anything can be refuted by the ridiculous. You could be found with the smoking gun in your hand and a dead body in the room and refute this by saying "He shot himself five times in the back then threw the gun at me before he died. You just came in at the moment I caught it." Anything is refuatable if you completely ignore everything you step far enough outside of reality, right? Now some decent evidence was presented to you. You haven't refuted it, you ignored it and just asked for more evidence.

True Grace #fundie freeconservatives.com

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