(Amos and Doug fighting about free will)

Doug Bristow:
Sorry my friend and brother in Christ but you are wrong on this one.
A child can tell you what free will is. God is LOVE. He created us out of love. He loves us and wants us to love Him. That is why He gave us free will because without free will there is no love; only a pre-programmed response. We can choose to love God by accepting His son Christ Jesus or we can choose not to love God by rejecting His son and thereby reject Him in the process.
To borrow from an insurance commercial...it is so easy a caveman can understand it

Amos Moses:
"we can choose not to love God by rejecting His son and thereby reject Him in the process."
unscriptural ........ it is not our choice ... it is Gods choice .... His sheep are not His sheep because they volunteered and did a good work by volunteering ....... by saying a sinners prayer ... there are no magic words or incantations .... God has ALWAYS had a CHOSEN people .... and do you know why ... because HE CHOSE THEM ... we did not choose Him .... our nature prevents us ..... the unregenerate man does not want to be seen as a fool .... and the things of God are foolishness to that man ......BTW ... free will is NOT spiritual and is not spiritually discerned .... it is idolatry ...

Doug Bristow:
John 3:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Amos Moses:
how did you make that "free will decision" BEFORE you were even created .................
Eph
1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Doug Bristow:
We are all chosen for the offer of eternal life through Christ but sadly not all will accept.

Amos Moses:
no ... the offer is to all men but only the elect are chosen by God ..... and it says so outright in Ephesians .... He chooses His sheep .... the sheep do not chose their shepherd ....

Doug Bristow:
Where in Ephesians?

Amos Moses:
Ephesians
1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
1:4 According as He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, (not our will)
1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, (not our will) according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (not our will)
1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

you were counted as saved even before you were created .... before the entire creation was created .... before you had any body, mind and soul to choose ...... as Gods plan .... that is the potters freedom .... the potter (God) who formed you from the clay ....

Doug Bristow:
Thats what I have been telling you. We are all predestined.

Amos Moses:
again ... that does not affirm "free will" ..... and that is not addressing all of humanity .... it addresses the Elect .... because only the elect are the "whoever" .... all men are called to do right by their God given conscience .... as a general call .... which the unregenerate ignore .... and what you are quoting does not address how fallen men decide what their choice is ... they have choice .... but they have a choice informed by their fallen nature not a philosophical "free will" .... and they cannot violate their nature until God changes that nature .........but Doug .... scripture says not one word about free will ..... and you have not shown by scripture that they do ... mans choices are dictated by his nature .... and until God changes that nature they are not able to choose God .... God makes them able because HE does the choosing .... the sheep do not choose their shepherd ...For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. Eph (2:8–9)
faith and grace are Gods gifts ....... it is Gods actions that save us as it says faith and grace are not from us ..... faith and grace are not our works .... but your "free will choice" IS ............. God saves us ... NOT because of our "free will decision" ..... but IN SPITE of it ............

Doug Bristow:
It does affirm free will and it does address all of humanity but not all of humanity will choose to accept

Amos Moses:
you are reading into what you want to believe ... not what the text says .... and that is improper .....

Doug Bristow:
The whole world and whosoever.....

Amos Moses:
and the whosoever is only the elect .... because they are the ones CHOSEN by Him .... as He does the choosing .........

only the elect are the whosoever as they are the only ones God created out of all of humankind to be saved .... He created them to be saved and He created others to be destroyed .... and He did all this before the creation was created .....

Doug Bristow:
Your interpretation of scripture does not conform with John 3:16-17 and since God is not the author of confusion you are wrong.