I know this is random but it is impossible for people to be good for the sake of being good. God is the only entity that can convince us to do good. Mainly because he is the only entity will unquestionable control. Thus that is also why Heaven and Hell exist, to motivate us to do good.
62 comments
Being a good person is all about the motive. Doing good deeds only from threat of blackmail or coercion is not being a good person. Being good for it's own sake is the only true good there is.
You just don't want to believe that, since accepting it means that you have to realize that your god is therefore irrelevant, at least as far as being the source of morality.
god is actually more evil than cthulhu.especially not in death.
Now THAT'S cosmic horror! No wonder those cultists err i mean fundies are so insane!
God is the only entity that can convince us to do good.
Good? http://www.evilbible.com
I don't give a rats fart about your sky daddy.
MfG
If you insist on telling your children lies, you are only teaching them how to lie.
"Hell" is to frighten the children into submission, nothing more. "Heaven" is to keep the wretched sheep happy until they are dead wretched sheep.
Yes but then humans are only being good to avoid eternal torture, not actually for the sake of being good people. Wouldn't God want truly good hearted people in his kingdom, not those that are only good out of fear of burning and torture if they choose otherwise?
Just a thought.
Doing good under the threat of torment or torture by others, or a deity, is not truly doing good, truly doing good would have resulted from the desire to selflessly do for the benefit of others or the world at large, you are merely selfishly saving your skin, there is a difference that is quite apparent to those of us with a moral compass that does not rely entirely on the text of a 2000 year old book.
I don't know how, but that argument went something like this.
premise: the only thing that gives people any reason to be good is god...
oh right, we don't.
A lot of people have pointed out that atheists can be good. Even over and above that, there are good people who simply follow other religions and don't worship your god who are good, too. (Gandhi comes to mind first and foremost...)
Explain.
"I know this is random but it is impossible for people to be good for the sake of being good. "
And yet I, "evil" atheist that I am, routinely do good things for other people simply because they're the right thing to do.
I know this is random
Thus that is also why Heaven and Hell exist, to motivate us to do good.
Maybe it´s just you, Jimmy, as well as a couple of other christian persons, who need the fear from hell (and the promise of heaven) to motivate them to do good ;)
So very true. As soon as I became an atheist, that's when my killing, raping, looting, aborting, homosexual, coveting, adultering, sabbath-forgetting, non-mother-and-father-honoring, idol-worshiping, lying spree began.
So, when people do something actually good like free slaves, which is in direct defiance of the Bible, God makes us deify his fascist rules?
CAN WE SAY BROKEN?
Yes. I'm an evil man who murders everyone who spites him. That's totally me. I'm not one bit kind, altruistic, or good in any manner, nor am I planning to be a trauma therapist. Nope.
My motivation is bettering the world. I gain satisfaction out of doing good things for other people. No god, especially not God, is part of my motivation.
You have an extremely depressing view of human nature.
I don't believe in your god, your heaven, and your hell, and I do try to be a good person as best as I can, though by your parroted conservative religious standards I'm probably a very naughty person. That's because you have let your conservative religious doctrine erase any ability you might once have possessed to form an actual ethical standard. But I try to be polite to people, I've never been seriously tempted to kill, maim, or rape anyone, much less actually done it. I don't cheat or steal. I file my tax returns, I care about the environment, and I try to respect the views of people who think differently then I do and not condemn them on the spot for thinking differently then I do. Oh and I don't smoke or do drugs, I rarely even drink.
Some of us do not need to be threatened with eternal torment in order to behave. I'd actually like to think that very few people need to threatened with eternal torment in order to behave.
My motivation for doing good is not wanting to be a total useless fuckwad that nobody likes, and wanting to make the world a better place.
Thank you JIMMY for questioning my motives. You don't know me, you didn't ask me, you just assumed. All I have to do is think about how I'd like to be treated, realize that that's also how most would prefer to be treated as well, and there we go.
...All you're doing here is redefining "good" as "divine whim". We're looking for an OBJECTIVE definition of "good"one that, for lack of a better way of putting it, predates life and God.
No tainting something as important as morality with subjectivity, please.
So being kind to other people is just something you do because you're scared of Hell. Not because you want others to be happy, not because you want to be liked. Happy world you must live in... or not.
Edit. I just remember something. One of the people who has behaved almost evil was a Christian "friend" during 8th grade. If she had candy or anything, you where not allowed to ask for a piece, you should wait till she offered it to you. If you asked, you got nothing. If you waited you MIGHT get something. Is this to do good? Refusing a friend who asks for something.
Thanks for admitting just how weak you are. I always knew it was so, but to hear someone admit it like that is refreshing. I don't need a juju in the sky to make me be good... I don't need the fear of "something after death" to make me do the right thing. I'm smart enough to "do the right thing" because it is the right thing to do.
And then when things go wrong, and they believe that God has abandoned them, they go on a shooting spree.
On the other hand, people who are good for the sake of being good, tend to realize that sometimes life just sucks.
What advancing our species (99.9% genetically similar to ourselves) isn't good enough motivation for you?
Life is a self-motivating, self-replicating concept, that's what it does.
Learning helps.
Then why hasn't every single atheist committed some horrible crime? Why do Christians kill, rape, and rob each other?
Logic: You're doing it wrong.
It may be impossible for YOU to do good for the sake of it, but that's cause you are a dick.
If you need to be promised eternal bliss, or threatened with eternal torment to not do bad shit then you are a bad person.
FSMpirates motivation for being good:
People are going to remember me when I'm gone.
Would you rather be remembered as a person who would go out of their way to help a stranger, or someone who would screw people over just because they don't believe the same bullshit that you do?
You can guess my answer and my course of action. It feels good to help people. That's the altruism in me.
"... but it is impossible for people to be good for the sake of being good."
If you really believe that, then there's something seriously wrong with you.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
