[Comments on a story about two parents who kidnapped and bound their pregnant daughter, then drove her out of state in order to see that she have an abortion she didn't want, “You think if there were no way to get a legal abortion, her psychotic parents would just say 'Oh well, then, I guess you can have the baby.'”]
–Almost certainly the answer is yes. Would the parents like it? No. Would they kidnap their child and force an abortion if it were illegal? I most strongly doubt it. Come on, Watcher, don’t even try to deny it: In this country, morality follows the law. Too many people don’t say, “is it right?” They say, “is it legal?” and conform their behavior accordingly. People will generally obey the law in this country, whether the laws are moral or not. Merely allowing legal abortions sends the signal that abortion is morally acceptable. Conversely, criminalizing it sends the signal that it is not acceptable. If abortion is available, many will use pressure — psychological or otherwise — to compel its use when the need suits the person applying the pressure. If it is not available, and/or illegal, that does not occur.
21 comments
So, what about illegal abortions?, or people who disobey the law anyway?, moreover, what happened to the Christians who lived in Communist countries?, did they obey the "law"?
"[Comments on a story about two parents who kidnapped and bound their pregnant daughter, then drove her out of state in order to see that she have an abortion she didn't want, “You think if there were no way to get a legal abortion, her psychotic parents would just say 'Oh well, then, I guess you can have the baby.'”]
And I strongly doubt your interpretation. Seeing how far gone these parents seem, they'd simply have opted for the wire coathanger solution or another of these artisanal, illegal and dangerous methods...
Frank - I'd like to use this rusty coathanger to abort your testicles by yanking them through your prostrate.
"Too many people don’t say, “is it right?” They say, “is it legal?” and conform their behavior accordingly."
Would they kidnap their child and force an abortion if it were illegal? I most strongly doubt it.
And if it's illegal, back alley abortions and wire hanger abortions. As well as the odd baby found in a dumpster. There are people who don't care if it's illegal.
Kidnapping someone and trying to force them to get an abortion isn't legal, fucktard. If the moral, legal, and physical difficulties involved in kidnapping, tying up and transporting a struggling, adult woman didn't stop them, I doubt they would be much daunted by abortion being illegal. They'd just find one of the numerous illegal abortion providers that would no doubt spring up, should abortion be criminalized.
Yeah, making a law would've stopped them, just like prohibition and the war on drugs. Murder is illegal, that should never happen again either. Dipshit.
You think if there were no way to get a legal abortion, her psychotic parents would just say 'Oh well, then, I guess you can have the baby. Would the parents like it? No.
If a woman's parents want her to have an abortion, and she doesn't want to , then tough for them whether abortion is legal or not doesn't matter, because they don't get to decide either way.
Would they kidnap their child and force an abortion if it were illegal? I most strongly doubt it.
Kidnapping is a very serious crime. Forcing someone to undergo a medical procedure that they do not wish to undergo is also a crime.
This girl's parents kidnapped her, and forced her to have an abortion despite both being illegal, yet you think they would have stopped if abortion itself were banned?
"Senator, I want you to ban water. Mr. Mallory was recently convicted of killing Mr. Vick Tem by drugging him, kidnapping him, and later drowning him. He flagrantly violated the law by drugging Vick Tem, kidnapping him, and killing him by drowning, but if you were to have banned water, I'm sure he wouldn't have commit this horrible crime if water were illegal, he wouldn't have drowned Vick Tem because he would have to obey the anti-water law."
Come on, Watcher, don’t even try to deny it: In this country, morality follows the law. Too many people don’t say, “is it right?” They say, “is it legal?” and conform their behavior accordingly.
Sadly, this is true, but it gets worse than that.
Some people ask: "What is right?" and do it. Unfortunately, there are not enough of these people. Such people lead moral lives, although they may end up breaking the law in an oppressive state.
Some people ask: "What is legal?" and do it. If the country is free of oppressive laws and bans immoral actions, these people will lead moral lives, though not of their own choosing. Far too often, these people are the conservatives standing in the way of reform "but slavery is legal ..." "but segregation is legal ..." To them, legal implies right. There are far too many people like this.
Some people ask: "What is God's law?" and do it. These people are often dangerous. They believe they're following the ultimate supreme law and doing what's right, and stubbornly refuse to listen to anything that contradicts them. Since most religious laws are thousands of years old, they follow outdated rules we now regard as immoral. Anyone who has bombed an abortion clinic or refused to pay taxes on religious grounds fits this category. Even if you haven't done anything violent yourself, you can still fit into this category if you believe that a religion's rules are right. That would be you, Operation Rescue. Although we may never be rid of such people, we should seek to make sure that there are as few as possible.
A few people don't ask anything. They merely act out of self-interest. Such people are unacceptable, but rare. Many can be treated. This woman's parents probably fit this category. They don't care if something is legal or not.
People will generally obey the law in this country, whether the laws are moral or not.
Unfortunately true. What can be worse, though, are the people who don't care about what's right or what's legal people who only care about their own self-interest and/or what they think a god wants.
Merely allowing legal abortions sends the signal that abortion is morally acceptable.
Abortion is morally acceptable and is sometimes medically necessary. (It also happens on its own without human intervention in maybe 50% of all pregnancies.)
You are right, though, in that banning someone does tend to make people view it as wrong. There is nothing morally wrong with smoking marijuana, yet many people view this as a horrible crime simply because it's illegal. There is nothing morally wrong with prostitution, but again, people think it's wrong simply because it's banned.
Conversely, criminalizing it sends the signal that it is not acceptable.
Criminalizing abortion would send the signal that abortion is wrong. However, abortion would still be perfectly fine, and abortions would still happen. Just like with alcohol (and abortion itself) in days gone by and with many drugs and prostitution now, banning abortion would not stop it. It would simply make it less safe, fill the prisons with non-violent "criminals" who have done nothing but excersize control over their own bodies, and invite organized crime to fill the demand for abortion, which can't be stopped or reduced through laws alone.
If abortion is available, many will use pressure psychological or otherwise to compel its use when the need suits the person applying the pressure.
Yes, there are many people who would like to coerce somebody else into having an abortion. Such an act is illegal , though. Women are allowed to get abortions, but no one is ever allowed to force someone else to get an abortion.
If it is not available, and/or illegal, that does not occur.
Abortion will always be available whether it's legal or not. If you ban it, you will merely drive it out of the doctor's office and into the back alley. If doctors can't do it, there are plenty of organized crime groups that will. Banning abortion is not going to stop it, it will merely make it dangerous and provide a new source of income to organized crime.
Making abortion illegal will do nothing to stop forced abortions like this one. The parents who forced their daughter to have an abortion already broke the law by kidnapping her and forcing her to undergo a medical procedure against her will. Do you really think they wouldn't have done it if they knew they would be breaking three laws instead of two?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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