The context of the 1st Amendment was always in terms of different sects of Christianity. Had to have been, because all the States who wrote the Constitution all had some form of State CHRISTIAN religion built into their State Constitutions. They wanted to prohibit Congress from legislating their State CHRISTIAN religions away.
With the Constitution freshly signed, Thomas Jefferson went to the Jews and told them that they were included as well, when not a single State had allowances for the Jesus-denying Judaic religion to be recognized. This set an extremely bad precedence. Had the States known this would be the interpretation of the 1st, they would not have signed up for it.
What you are seeing with the 1st Amendment now, is liberal Jews stretching the meaning of the 1st to make it paramount and supreme, instead of docile and subservient as intended.
BTW, I would appreciated it greatly if you would stop being a Judas and stop spelling God the way that Jesus-denying unbelieving Jews spell it. Speak English in this country -- Speak Christian!
38 comments
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting 'Jesus Christ,' so that it would read 'A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
The thing wasn't written on the back of a napkin after a few beers. If it was just about christian faiths it could very easily have said so. Up to you to prove that the natural and ordinary meaning of the words used was not the meaning intended by everyone signing it.
And p.s. its their God and was long before Jesus came along. I think they get to name him, not you.
Had to have been, because all the States who wrote the Constitution all had some form of State CHRISTIAN religion built into their State Constitutions
Rhode Island. You lose. And I'm not even American.
Yeah, no
Christianity has no right that other religions (and non-religions) don't have in this country. And you should be happy about that because the public is starting to get tired of these rights we're giving you (especially over, you guessed it, other religions and atheism)
@ Filin De Blanc
Wingnuts don't revere the founding fathers. They revere the false image of the founding fathers they've built up in their own minds. It's doubtful this lunatic has ever read what they actually wrote in the Constitution, let alone any of their other writings.
I can just imagine what Jefferson and Franklin would have to say to this asshole.
The 1st Amendment was writen to prevent a theocracy. Theocracies were rampant in Europe at that time, and the Founding Fathers could see what horrors they produced. That's why it doesn't specify one religion or the other, because ALL religions should be kept out of government.
The context of the 1st Amendment was always in terms of different sects of Christianity.
Too bad the First Amendment just says "religion" and doesn't say "Christianity." Regardless, it says that there will be no government establishment of religion.
Speak Christian!
I guess that means typing in all caps and using excessive exclamation marks.
Holy shit. So much fail it boggles the mind.
I'd expect someone with The Christian Solution as his user tag to at least know that Christianity is an amalgam of pre-Christian religions, including Judaism. The title "King Of the Jews" ring a bell?
Secondly, I made the mistake of reading the thread and found that the one with the so-called 'solution' doesn't even know the name of his own god. I mean really...objecting to spelling it YHWH? I was a child when I learned about that. I'm left to wonder if this dolt has even read his own bible, considering how many times the name of the Hebrew god actually appears in it. 6800 repeats is rather a stern reminder.
(YHWH also calls himself by the name Jealous , but that's a topic for another day.)
If that's true, and Jefferson acted by himself, then it's strange how the Founding Fathers then stuck with Jefferson's view rather than anyone else's.
@KittyKaboom
It is astonishing how poorly fundies actually know the Bible.
@ Hasan Prishtina
It is astonishing how poorly fundies actually know the Bible.
It's like a software license agreement. They don't read it, they just click on "I agree" at the bottom.
So are you saying that the Founders meant to write: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion any particular Christian sect over another, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", but had an attack of stupidity and messed it up? Or are you saying the 13 states didn't read it carefully and thought they were signing up only for Christian religious freedom?
"Had the States known this would be the interpretation of the 1st, they would not have signed up for it."
I'm impressed that you know what the all the legislators would have signed hundreds of years ago.
Equally, I'm impressed that you know the language of Christianity is English even when Jesus, nor any other character in the Bible, spoke the not yet developed English language.
Listen up, buttercup. There is no official language of the US. There is no mandate requiring anybody to speak English or any other language.
As for how I, or anybody else, spells God: you have exactly ZERO say on that topic. Confused? See the first amendment for details.
What's that? You're crying because 200+ years of supreme court justices don't agree that your position should be priviledged? Too Goddamned bad. If you aren't comfortable out here in the big wide world with the rest of us, maybe you shouldn't leave your church. That's the only place where the ignorant crap you spout will ring true, anyway.
As for your whining about how the first amendment means that all religions are equal but some are more equal than others, the US Constitution, the Treaty of Tripoli, and the individual writings of the founding fathers all say pretty much the exact opposite of what you do. Maybe you should give them a read?
If you did, you'd read about something called the "Supremacy clause", which basically says that the states don't have any more power to deny the bill of rights than the fed does. Guess where that leaves your little claim regarding "state CHRISTIAN religion"?
Your attempt to lay the blame for your own willfully ignorant selfishness on the "liberal Jesus-denying unbelieving Jews" is downright comical.
If you want to speak 'Christian', you're going to have to learn Hebrew. That is, after all, the language Jesus and all the apostles spoke.
Sorry, but you are dead wrong, because if you were right, we'd be living in a theocracy right now, and we aren't, so shut up.
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(translated from Mandarin: It's hard for religion and politics not to mix; America drew up the 1st amendment to avoid a theocracy, got that?)
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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