[Re: God "Testing" Abraham by telling him to sacrifice his son Isaac]
Because Abraham had free will just like the rest of God’s children. So God tested his faith, to see if he would truly put the Lord’s will before everything earthly.
It is not cruel, because God loves all of his children, and even if Isaac had died he would have just gone up to live with God in heaven. In fact, it’s almost like teasing Isaac, because he almost got an express ticket to the pearly gates.
40 comments
If God can make everyone perfectly happy in heaven, why doesn't he just put us there in the first place, and get rid of Earth? What's the point? Don't say something stupid like "testing our faith/virtue/morality" because there are lots of babies who die and I'm always told they go straight to Heaven before their morals are even developed, much less tested.
Wehpudicabok asked:
"If God can make everyone perfectly happy in heaven, why doesn't he just put us there in the first place, and get rid of Earth?" Or why didn't he just make Earth exactly like heaven in the first place?
What's that you say, Mister Biblical Apologist? Because He wanted man to have Free Will?
So what you're saying is ... in Heaven, there is no Free Will?
Ok, he abandons his house and his life to follow him and he has to test his faith, why exactly?. I prefer the symbolic interpretation given by my religion teacher, that it was a vestige of the sacrifice of the first born symbolically being abolished.
and what would have happened to Abraham should he have used his "free will" to not kill his own child.
just guessing here, but I'm thinking god wouldn't have been happy. like that time the kind old lord of ours turned a women to salt for looking over her shoulder. or the time mosses wasn't aloud to enter the promised land, after all his faithful service, because he broke a rock. doesn't he just love us so.
@tracer (#997898): Or why didn't he just make Earth exactly like heaven in the first place?
Did you know that the first Earth was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost.
So, God tells Abraham to kill his own son, the son that he and Sarah had been praying for ages to have together, Abraham drags Isaac up to the mountain just to prove to God how obedient he is, and at the very moment that he's holding a knife to his own son's throat, God suddenly changes his mind and says, "PSYCH! Thanks for showing me how faithful you are, Abe, but I was just kidding! Take your son back home, I'm sure you haven't traumatized him or anything!"
And you see nothing wrong with this?
Toby... there's a special place for 'people' like you who think that murder, attempted or not, can be justified as a "test of faith".
It's called the Nutty Room .
g0d: "Ha ha, just kidding...PSYCH!"
Abraham: "Fucking bastard."
Isaac: "Fucking bastard."
g0d: "Not so fast, I still want blood! Kill me a goat!"
Protip. Any god-thing who demands blood is not a good god-thing.
God told me to kill you. Don't worry, you're just getting an express ride to heaven.
no, I don't think that's nearly as reassuring as you think it is. And it's a lousy excuse for murder.
"Because Abraham had free will just like the rest of God’s children. So God tested his faith, to see if he would truly put the Lord’s will before everything earthly."
I thought your god was an omnimax deity. You know, omniscient and all. Why would he need to test anyone?
"It is not cruel, because God loves all of his children, and even if Isaac had died he would have just gone up to live with God in heaven."
So if someone were to murder you then we shouldn't do anything about it because you'll be floating around in the clouds with your new set of wings and halo while strumming your harp, right?
"In fact, it’s almost like teasing Isaac, because he almost got an express ticket to the pearly gates."
Tell me, were you this psychotic before your religion poisoned your mind or did it happen after the years of indoctrination?
Wow, so Abraham WANTED his son to die? And you consider him HONORABLE because of this?
Also, KILL YOUR KID NOW AND SEND HIM ON THE EXPRESS TRAIN TO PARADISE!
"So God tested his faith, to see if he would truly put the Lord’s will before everything earthly."
How can ANYTHING be against the will of omnipotent, omniscient being? And why would such being need to test anything?
So, human sacrifices as done by, for example, the Mayas or the Celts are O.K. for you as well?
After all most religious human sacrifices contain the belief, that the person who is sacrificed will be rewarded by getting some kind of higher position in the afterlife and being especially close to the particular gods of the tribe doing the sacrifice
;)
When ever I used to hear this story in church I would get up and walk out. The bible is full of many horrible stories but this one always got to me.
It's funny how God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, because I think if he has asked Sarah (that was Abe's wife,right? I'm trying to forget my bible stories) it would have been a different story altogether.
99% of moms (I know there are few out their that kill their children) would do anything to protect their children, including going against an obnoxious god.
When I was a believer, I always wondered why good old Mary never really stepped up to the plate for her son as well.
Yeah, it's not cruel, not at all. *rolls eyes and slowly backs away*
If Abraham had really killed his son and then woken up to realize what he had done, his life would be hell from that moment on. How can you sanely carry on living, when you know that you wilfully murdered your own son?
Remind me again of the Peleagian heresy, will you...?
@[b]G. Fieendish (#999188): Note: the punishment for Heresy, during the Middle Ages, & in some parts, up to the 1800's was the Auto-da-fe...
Auto-da-fe? What's the Auto-da-fe?
Re: Auto-Da-Fe
@G. Fieendish (#1003145): Mass Auto Da Fe's were publically performed
Ah, the Inquisition. What a show!
I felt this necessary...
Dear Fundies,
There is no such thing as an after-life. You either be cool through your life, and people remember you that way (the closest thing to immortality) or you're a dumb-ass pushy fundie piece of trash that everyone laughs at the memory of after you're gone. You can't depend on your invisible friend to put you in this cloud party of which you so blindly hope is up there.
That doesn't strike you as the worlds biggest con-job? A life of servitude to the "lord"(aka: the church), and you won't collect your reward until you are already dead. You're beyond getting anything/going anywhere once they put your poor misguided ass in the ground.
"Hey, follow my rules through your life, and I'll reward you with paradise. Don't, and it's the lake of fire and brimestone for you!"
This and countless other rules were thought up to keep the brainless masses (you guys) from killing eachother off. Meanwhile, athiests and other people who enjoy thinking for themselves are capable of leading moral, fruitful lives.
So, cower from your bogey-man. Make him happy and he won't "gitcha"!
"So God tested his faith, to see if he would truly put the Lord’s will before everything earthly.”
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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