In the Christian worldview, morality can be defined apart from punishment and reward. What is morally good is that of which God approves. There is nothing in that definition by itself that necessitates punishment or reward. However, God is also fundamentally just/fair. And for that reason, God will punish evil and reward good. And it is morally right for Him to do so. (And there is nothing wrong with God warning people about eternal punishment or eternal blessings in order to help induce appropriate behavior in our sinful state.)
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What is morally good is that of which God approves.
Because God says so? How do you know He's not lying?
Because it just is? Then why do we need God to tell us what's right? Why can't we figure that out all by ourselves? How do you know you're not mistaken?
"What is morally good is that of which God approves. There is nothing in that definition by itself that necessitates punishment or reward. However, God is also fundamentally just/fair. And for that reason, God will punish evil and reward good. And it is morally right for Him to do so."
Don't those last three sentences contradict the first two?
If it hurts people, then it is morally wrong. For example, killing gays/ raped women/ nonvirgins/ people who disagree with you hurts them. Therefore, it is morally wrong. No god necessary.
"In the Christian worldview,"
Islam is the real religion, so everything you said is invalid.
What is morally good is that of which God approves.
Like slavery? The bible lays out in detail what you can and cannot do with your slaves (like beating them to within an inch of their lives), and who you can enslave.
According to my atheistic subjective non-authoritarian godless heathen morality, however, it's a monstrous evil.
You've hit on a problem here. If what is morally good is that of which God approves, then not eating shrimps and how to wear beards are moral laws. The fundamentalist argument for retaining what Leviticus has to say about homosexuality and rejecting the law that requires burial overnight on the grounds that Jesus preserved the "moral law" and supplanted the "civic law" and "ceremonial law" becomes futile.
God approves the murder of whole groups of people, that live on land he has decided Israelites should live on.
God is fundamentally indecisive.
Do you know what usually happens if you put a death penalty on, say, rape? More rape victims are killed after the rape, to remove the witness. Harsher punishment often lead to tougher criminals. Sure, the threat of punishment keeps already law-abiding citizens in check, but that’s the easy part
morality can be defined apart from punishment and reward. What is morally good is that of which God approves. There is nothing in that definition by itself that necessitates punishment or reward. ... And for that reason, God will punish evil and reward good.
You're going to strip your gears shifting back & forth that much.
This is that wonderful argument, "god always wins". If it's good, it's of god. If it's of god, it's good. If he rewards you, it's because it's good. (If he doesn't reward but punishes you, that's just him "testing you" again, and you get a celestial do-over.) If it's bad, of course, god washes his hands of the whole business. Not HIS fault. Once again, god is indistinguishable from blind chance.
And so we come to the biggest issue -- these divine ass-kissers are never going to understand that even if their god does exist, that doesn't mean that he can't be wrong . If he punishes an act which harms no one or inflicts a massively disproportionate punishment then he's in the wrong. Period. All the divinity in the universe won't allow him to change that. It might get him out seeing any consequences for his actions but it won't change the truth.
Must be nice, though. Having a god who just so happens to believer exactly what you, yourself believe.
The little problem with that is that you're completely subordinating your will to that of a supposed divine entity, whom you choose to believe is perfectly good.
What is morally good is that of which God approves
If God comes down here and tells us, I'll agree. But if He did that, we wouldn't have 40,000 different religions, would we? If some human claims to know what God approves, then what you call "morally good" boils down to what that human approves.
God will punish evil and reward good
He doesn't do that in this life. What makes you think He'll do it in the next? What makes you even think there is a "next" other than what you read in some book written by some anonymous Bronze Age Arabs?
I thought this was written by someone criticizing Christianity. They're all very good points that illustrate problems with it.
I was saddened to find that the author thought of these as praiseworthy features.
But why do you follow this arbitrary morality? Do you truly care what Gobs thinks, or are you simply afraid it will punish you?
@1786233
"We" as humans, or "we" as social justice proponents?
This must be why Christians that discriminate against homosexuals are being punished with lawsuits, and are being increasingly ostracised by others, including their fellow Christians. Slowly, but surely, God is warming to those that are attracted to the same-sex, and will continue to punish the homophobes as a consequence for going against its morality.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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