I'm absolutely floored over the way our society has not only accepted all manner of sin, but has actually embraced it. There was a time when decent girls didn't move in and set up housekeeping with their boyfriends. If they were engaged, they still knew that shacking up together was unacceptable. Now, it seems that every couple moves in together and may have several children, whether they ever get married or not. There was also a time when the conventional mores required that a girl's virginity wa to be valliantly protected until her wedding night. It was a serious matter for a woman to be a virgin until that night. I remember when my 2 oldest children were still home and I noticed that, more and more, TV shows and movies began equating dating with having sex. The characters might have just met in a bar and decide to go elsewhere together and, before they said goodbye, they fell into bed together. Now, what you hear on TV shows and movies is that a girl should hang on to her virginity until she's ready to give it up and she'll instinctively know when that time comes. Seriously? So, now we have 14 year olds routinely deciding that they're ready. The moral decay that I have seen take place in this country sickens me. How are our children supposed to know where the boundary lines for their behavior are? It's as if we're teaching children that they have a right and a responsibility to be their own gods, doing what's right in their own eyes. Yeah, that didn't work out so well for Israel.
71 comments
I think that a couple living together before they get married is a good idea. It gives them time to figure out how to share a space before anything gets made official.
And why did the sentence about a girl's virginity being valiantly protected give me an image of a miniature knight hovering around a girl's panties?
You remember watching a '50s era TV show.
Also, Historicaly most girls were active by age 14.
At that time too, people didn't know, or, rather, didn't seem to know, like you, that you need two to tango. That's why it was full of brothels.
How are our children supposed to know where the boundary lines for their behavior are?
There are still boundary lines. They're just not where you learned they were. You're just pissed because you were stupid enough to blindly accept the boundaries of your grandmother's generation, which grew up before effective birth control, while people who keep their eyes open to the modern world and realized there was no longer any sword of pregnancy hanging over their heads, went out and had fun.
Yeah, because nobody ever had premarital sex before the 1960's. And even then married couples slept in twin beds.
"How are our children supposed to know where the boundary lines for their behavior are?"
I think that's the responsibility of their parents.
"There was also a time when the conventional mores required that a girl's virginity wa to be valliantly protected until her wedding night."
But a boy's virginity was considered something to lose at the first opportunity--and not to another boy. This double-standard, and its obvious disconnect from common sense, has finally been abandoned. You should be happy.
Yes, in this country they do have the right to do what's right in their own eyes as long as it is in compliance with the law of the land.
How other people live their lives is none of your business.
1. Sin is a bullshit concept, not to be confused with ethics or morality.
2. In all probability, your mother and your grandmother both knew how to give a good blow job before they were married. Mayberry only existed as a false front. Now we admit it. Get over it.
Many, many years after happily attaining the status of non-virgin at the age of 14, I met a man at a bar. We had sex the next evening, dated for over two years, and then he moved in with me.
It is now 21 years later. We've managed to live together in a committed relationship all this time and don't see it ending as long as we're both alive. We might even actually get married one of these days -- for the tax benefits as we near retirement age. Neither one of us ever did anything we're ashamed of. All is well.
So, pardon me, Miss Prudella, but I don't give a flying fuck what you think.
USA - a country overflowing with religious nonsense is the western country with the highest amount of teen pregnancies.
In other less religious countries with better sex education and much lower age of consent, the amount of teen pregnancies is a small fraction of the US number.
@ D. Laurier
"Through the early 20th century, most brides were visibly pregnant on their wedding day".
"Most" brides would be a huge overstatement, at least for mid-nineteenth to early twentieth centuries. Citations please.
"I'm absolutely floored over the way our society has not only accepted all manner of sin, but has actually embraced it." tl;dr...
Well, if you don't want to be part of this world you're in, there's a simple solution - and to accelerate that lovely (C)Rapture you lot on Ruptured Retards have a hardon for:
Drink the Kool-Aid. 909 people at Jonestown can't be wrong after all.
And remember: 'Suicide is a sin' is purely Catholic doctrine. And I know you Protestant fundies don't want anything do do with Popery in all it's evil forms don't you?
Amirite?
>:D
Part 2
There was also a time when the conventional mores required that a girl's virginity wa to be valliantly protected until her wedding night. It was a serious matter for a woman to be a virgin until that night.
I remember when my 2 oldest children were still home and I noticed that, more and more, TV shows and movies began equating dating with having sex.
The characters might have just met in a bar and decide to go elsewhere together and, before they said goodbye, they fell into bed together.
Now, what you hear on TV shows and movies is that a girl should hang on to her virginity until she's ready to give it up and she'll instinctively know when that time comes.
Part 1
I'm absolutely floored over the way our society has not only accepted all manner of sin, but has actually embraced it.
There was a time when decent girls didn't move in and set up housekeeping with their boyfriends. If they were engaged, they still knew that shacking up together was unacceptable.
Now, it seems that every couple moves in together and may have several children, whether they ever get married or not.
Part 3
Seriously? So, now we have 14 year olds routinely deciding that they're ready.
The moral decay that I have seen take place in this country sickens me. How are our children supposed to know where the boundary lines for their behavior are?
It's as if we're teaching children that they have a right and a responsibility to be their own gods, doing what's right in their own eyes.
Yeah, that didn't work out so well for Israel.
In your own twisted way of thinking you don't really care how old a girl when she loses her virginity, you only care whether or not she is married.
The fact of the matter is that waiting until marriage for sex used to be a fine way to do things. Of course people got married when they were 15 and started pumping out kids immediately so that they had hands to work the farm. That economic model has changed. In order to be competitive the modern marketplace kids must be educated until the age of 22, maybe 25-26. They are therefore unable to support offspring until later in life. If you truly think it is sound policy to expect that human beings will be sexually mature for 10+ years and not have intercourse you are just fucking stupid.
This is not a conspiracy of the liberals or the media. This is unstoppable social forces at work, and your side loses in the long run.
Getting married without having sex...like buying a car without test driving it only it fucks your life up alot more.
But seriously. Sex has nothing to do with morality. So why don't you fuck off and go live in the middle east.
The comedy of all this? Several recent studies show those couples who live together and have sex prior to marriage are far less likely to divorce than those couples where traditional values of chastity were practiced leading into wedlock. We keep hearing the Bible thumpers say things like, "It's time to bring back decency to the country and restore conservative family values in our lives." Don't you fucking dare! Conservative family values are a demonstrable, quantifiable failure! Where are most people filing for divorce? Where are most of the abortions occurring? Where are children being born out of wedlock more often? By all relevant indicators, a non-religious couple in New York is exceedingly more likely to remain together and committed than a highly religious couple in Louisiana. Let your ignorant, poorly considered mores be your own, but keep them the hell out of my house.
Seriously, this sound like my grandmother.
People have been complaining about the "downfall of humanity" since the beginning of humanity. My older sister got married younger (she was 19) than I am, she dated a guy for 3 months and nobody in the family meet the guy till after 6 months when they had a kid suddenly appear in the picture out of the blue.
When we where still dating, the now fiancee found out her and I we're sexually compatible. Marriage really now is just an idea, whereas in the past it was a business transaction, a "you give me your daughter and I give you 100 acres of my land" or "give me your daughter, we forge an alliance to make our kingdoms stronger" to ensure that the offspring are yours.
I'm confused. One fundie says it's perfectly okay for 12 year old girls to marry old men and have kids right away.
What about the boys, what about their virginity? After all, virginity is just not having had sex before. That stupid little skin-fold a few centimeters up in the vagina says nothing about anything. Some girls are born without the fold, some lose it during sport and some need it surgically removed to be able to have sex at all.
"Our children" should learn all the consequences of having sex, before they hit puberty, and how to protect themselves from STDs and unwanted pregnancies.
That "time" you speak of, it certainly wasn't during the 20th century...
Actually, while it is true that cohabitation before marriage has become far more commonplace, it's NOT true that virginity was invariably protected until the wedding night. What WAS protected until the wedding night? The secret that the dear lady had already lost her virginity. And in some cases, it wasn't that well-kept. The only difference between then and now is that we're being far more honest about it now, while we used to just cover it all up.
"Yeah, that didn't work out so well for Israel."
WTF does Isreal have to do with a girl's decision to go "all the way" or a couple co-habituating?
@tracer
Oh, I know, and as we all know, boys will be boys, and girls will be Jezebel Harlots doing all they can to lead good Christian Boys astray.
Random anecdata:
Obviously, the ideal of “woman a virgin on wedding day” was not universal, even in the fifties. She just had fewer options if she found herself pregnant.
I think the “utopia” you describe only ever existed up your own ass, where your head seems to be firmly lodged.
There was a time when decent girls didn't move in and set up housekeeping with their boyfriends. If they were engaged, they still knew that shacking up together was unacceptable
So what's the difference between an engaged person "shaking up" and two married people living together? Signing a piece of paper doesn't mean you're commited to that person.
There was also a time when the conventional mores required that a girl's virginity wa to be valliantly protected until her wedding night.
Yeah, and in the bible women who weren't were killed. What about widows and rape or molestation victims?
How are our children supposed to know where the boundary lines for their behavior are?
I grew up watching a lot of sexual scenes in movies and TV shows and at 20 years old, I'm still a virgin. That's because as a young girl my parents actualy parented me which is something people today don't have the balls to do.
We don't really have sin over here in the UK. We're usually too busy having sex and enjoying ourselves to bother with sin. In any case, we'd rather leave all the sinning to the Catholics and the few fundamental cultists that we do have. Although, of course, they can't compete in the sinning stakes with your fundamental cultists over there. You outnumber them greatly.
The poor things really don't understand that people have fucked since before marriage was invented and that the majority of married people, a few billion, are married without the benefit of Christianity.
I really can't figure out how these morons remember to breathe.
As crazy as this is, he does have a slight point. Today's television does seem to promote the idea of one night stands a lot, for the simple reason that sex sells. Now, I don't have a problem with this, but it does explain why many in the middle east think that all we do in western countries is have orgies, when that is clearly not the case.
I'm probably eading too much into this though. I doubt he's capable of forming such a coherent thought all by himself.
Far out. Fundies are such killjoys. Listen, no one is forcing you to have sex so if you want to valiantly protect your child's virginity then go right ahead. Let's see how much good that does. Not to mention that sex is usually a whole lot more fun with someone who has experience and who is comfortable with their body. Virgins usually make rather poor sexual partners, I know I did; but we all learn.
There were no good old days. Marriage out of wedlock is as pervasive now as it was throughout the 20th century. Surveys of older people have found this to be very true.
The good ol' days only existed in 1950's-70's television.
The only reasons virginity in a female was so important are:
1: Weak little men don't want to be compared.
2: To make sure that any children born after the wedding were actually the husbands.
has nothing to do with morality, you idiot.
Re: Swede's last comment(Mind you, male Homosexuality, in the U.K until the 1960's, was classed as a criminal offence punishable by either Imprisonment or execution... .(a subsection of the Defence of The Realm Act 1916 a/k/a DORA for short) , which restricted pub opening hours, was enacted to stop workers in key war indrustries, such as munitions, from turning up on the job blind drunk, thus endangering soldiers lives, by producing defective equipment...
You have problems with 14-year-old (female, of course) non-virgins? People married off very early in the good ol' days - earlier than age 14, even - and God didn't cry over busted youthful hymens then.
Now society generally expects individuals to postpone marriage until the mid-20's, when individuals can correctly care for children that foreseeablely result from the union.
News flash: sexual maturity (and with it sexual urges) comes way before that. Safe, consensual doesn't hurt anybody. It's been the way of human life for many millenia, whether or not you accept that.
Quit obsessing over other people's sex lives, especially kids', perv. People stopped "guarding" (protecting property value of) female virgnity once the bride price fell to the wayside.
Just another prudish fundie with a madonna/whore complex. Move along.
"I'm absolutely floored over the way our society has not only accepted all manner of sin, but has actually embraced it."
Indeed. Just ask Jim Bakker (Embezzlement, thus Stealing), Jimmy Swaggart (Adultery), Ted Faggard (homosexuality & Hypocrisy), Kent Hovind (Tax Evasion), Tony Alamo (rape) and David J. Stewart (Paedophilia).
I notice you & your ilk on Ruptured Retards aren't exactly outside their doors wielding flaming torches & pichforks. Are you?
No. Of course not. Because you right-wing fundies accept all manner of sin(s) by other right-wing fundies.
Yep we have got to preserve all that Virginal Cunt for throbbing Patriarchal Cock to fuck. -- Pasca;
I love that phrase! It sounds like a series of porno videos to me....
"Now for sale: Virginal Cunt For Throbbing Patriarchal Cocks #12!!!"
It could be an Old Testament-themed porn series. There's plenty of inspiration that the producers could draw from the Old Testament.......
Well since we live in a 'pull yourself by your bootstraps' society, women cannot rely on men to provide for them. So reproductive value is greatly diminished. If I need to provide for my own retirement, I am not going to be relying on a man, now am I?
Additionally, nature dictates when human beings enter reproductive years, which sex is a function of. You wouldn't be trying to divorce sex and reproduction would you? That sounds like classic willful sin right there.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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