Atheists are able to adhere to the view and practice of “do unto others.” They just don’t have any (known) recourse for their mistakes, which can make them throw up their hands in despair. Many times they find their values in the discoveries of Science — and science eventually confirms what the Bible said all along, since the Bible is the Truth, for instance in regard to the permanent effects of oxytocin (released during sex) on the brain: it has now been confirmed scientifically through studies of the brain that we only truly can bond with one individual, after that, the adhesive or velcro of intimacy starts to wear off. I am seeing a psychologist who is an atheist, and it works for me. He is more honest and empathetic than a lot of Christians. We do however deal only in the “here and now”. It is more a life coaching kind of thing than “tell me about your mother,” which is why it works for me, I think. Also, I did let him know up front that I would like to get through the course of therapy with my Faith intact, so he tip toes around that topic and my values with respect and gives it a lot of space.
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They just don’t have any (known) recourse for their mistakes
What about "learn from it and don't do it again in the future?"
I did let him know up front that I would like to get through the course of therapy with my Faith intact, so he tip toes around that topic and my values with respect and gives it a lot of space.
So he's very professional, which is probably a lot more than I could say for any fundamentalist Christian counselors.
And the recourse of Christians, no matter how severe or how frequent the sin, such as murder, rape, or pedophilia, is to telepathically beg "god" for forgiveness, and then magically you're always forgiven! It's the "Get out of Hell Free" card! "Use Whenever Needed". Even someone as horrendous as Charles Manson, Jeffery Dahmer, or a pedophilic priest are instantly forgiven and on their way to heaven, no questions asked.
If someone "just wanted to sin", Christianity and its infinite-use "Get out of Hell Free" card is just the religion for you!
Also, I did let him know up front that I would like to get through the course of therapy with my Faith intact, so he tip toes around that topic and my values with respect and gives it a lot of space.
He behaves the way a professional therapist should behave, that's why it works for you. It has nothing to do with your faith.
I just bead the board as White Knight, and tbh, with the capital W and the fact that Winter is associated with white, its just too easy!
it has now been confirmed scientifically through studies of the brain that we only truly can bond with one individual,
No, it hasn't. That's a lie.
I'm not sure which is sadder -- having to tell bald-faced lies about other people (and reality) in order to reassure yourself that you're superior to them in some nebulous way that only you can see or actually better fitting the character you've described than those you've ascribed it to.
++"science eventually confirms what the Bible said all along, since the Bible is the Truth"
I must have missed the announcement of the discovery of the crystal sphere encircling the Earth and the endless ocean of water beyond. I wonder how the space agencies manage to get all those probes out without letting any of the water in. Maybe it's more magic like in the Spelljammer setting.
My reply to that Winter Knight guy:
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So..."christian morality" is superior, eh?
If your "morality" was based on anything like the welfare of other people, as opposed to just "god says so", then incidents like the following would not be possible:
--http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=95965
Quote: (for source of quote, click on link. It's a poster on a creationist blog. The creationist himself is no better when confronted with what this "Josef" guy said.
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[You do not have an objective moral standard.
For instance: baby-killing is OK if god orders it, is it not? William Lane Craig seems to think so.]
Of course. Whatever God commands is absolutely moral because God himself is the absolute standard for good. In fact, if God really did command to do something, such as kill babies, then it would be immoral not to do it. And on what basis do you have to disagree with this outside of mere opinion? "
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http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/11/09/deep-time-the-god-of-our-age/comment-page-2/#comment-7376
Quote:
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Lisle says, quoting me at first:
Remember Joseph saying that it would be immoral to NOT kill a baby if god commanded it?
[Dr. Lisle: Joseph is right. What God commands is necessarily right. Any other definition of morality is ultimately arbitrary and therefore logically unjustified.]
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Then there's Bodie Hodge of Answers in Genesis who said that it's immoral to lie to Nazis about whether one is hiding Jews or not:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/11/13/feedback-righteous-lie
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"They just don’t have any (known) recourse for their mistakes, which can make them throw up their hands in despair."
Really? Because correct the problem & do better next time has always worked for me.
We don't need a recourse; we learn from our mistakes, ask the ones we have wronged to forgive us, and move on.
"throw up their hands"? Sounds like we're either barfing up hands, or cutting them off and throwing them in the air...
No, dearie, the Bible believers manage to contort the texts in the Bible to say things that science has just found out. Why didn't the Bible believers explain that to us BEFORE science found it?
Chapter and verse where the Bible mentions oxytocin, please.
Yeah, atheists are often pretty respecting of other people's faiths.
"and science eventually confirms what the Bible said all along, since the Bible is the Truth"
This never happened. What probably happened is that you aligned your bible interpretation with your interpretation of some research.
Both are probably incorrect.
"I did let him know up front that I would like to get through the course of therapy with my Faith intact"
You have very little confidence in the strength of your faith. Probably because you keep changing your interpretation to match the facts.
@ #1824533
And the recourse of Christians, no matter how severe or how frequent the sin, such as murder, rape, or pedophilia, is to telepathically beg "god" for forgiveness, and then magically you're always forgiven! It's the "Get out of Hell Free" card!
It's actually easier than that. All you have to do is believe "once saved, always saved" along with "salvation is by faith alone, not works" and you don't even have to beg forgiveness. God loves you no matter what you do.
I won't comment on the claim that humans are naturally wired to be monogamous. Instead, I'll focus on this guy's psychologist friend. Yes, pg, he uses techniques that work a lot better than "was it your mother". Of all areas of science, psychology is the one that fundamentalists are the weakest in. Their biology is stuck in the 1980s, but their psychology is still stuck with Sigmund Freud. You wouldn't believe how many times I have been defiantly and ignorantly informed by fundamentalists that Sigmund Freud's methods were unscientific as if I didn't know that already, only to shock them by saying that, yeah, actually, I learned that in an intro level psychology class.
Sorry about that. Just a rant I had to get off my chest.
Sounds like you have a good psychologist. Listen to him.
@ freako104
DNA studies show that Kohanim do have a common ancestor, as the Bible says. Whether or not that ancestor is Aaron, as identified in the Bible, is, of course, impossible to tell.
That's the basis of our morality: "do unto others..." but don't forget the second half "as you would have others do unto you." That's biblical wording but a concept that exists pretty much everywhere. No deity required. Don't steal because you don't want your own things stolen. Be polite because you want others to do the same.
As an atheist/agnostic mental health professional, I will categorically agree with the other commenters that your psychologist is doing precisely right. Changing your religious beliefs would be out of line. Obviously all of us change our beliefs over time, but for a therapist to push any particular religious agenda would be wrong.
And yes, we do have recourse for our mistakes: making amends to those who might have been harmed and learning from the experience. If I accidentally break something of someone else's, I fix it or replace it. If I am pulled over for speeding, I pay for the ticket. If I am rude, I apologize.
Citation needed for the "only one person bond." Since that same oxytocin helps us bond with a number of people (Mom, Dad, immediate and extended family, friends) long before we have any romantic attachments, that "velcro" would be far too worn by adulthood.
I don't defend promiscuity or early entry into sexual activity. But that argument is worthless.
Well, my opinion is that as long as you aren't hurting anyone and are receptive to other ideas, knock yourself out. Just don't push your holey book onto others.
Unfortunately, it seems you aren't receptive to non-biblical ideas, so I'm not giving this my stamp of approval. A fundie you are.
Well, well, well(artesian, if at all possible) then how come I can literally smell the bullshit? Oh, prolly by having some polyamorous experiences myself, and though it did not work out for me in the end, I can ascertain you fine folks, as to the fact, that a human being can and sometimes will love two or more people at once and if his or her partner is ok with that, threesomes are in the near future!
No known recourse for mistakes?
... You're the type of person who has never said "sorry" in your life for anything, aren't you? You'll ask forgiveness but you're never sorry.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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