(Responding to story "Washington Commission Issues Statewide Rules Requiring Allowance of Men in Women’s Restrooms")
Here comes the whack-job brigade taking away any privacy people might have in the restroom. I'm thinking if men want to hang out (so to speak) in the women's can because they claim they are really women, someone should help out by removing the part that says otherwise.
39 comments
Being an ignorant person, I am new to this discussion about legally allowing trans women in ladies' bathrooms, locker rooms, etc. Like an idiot, I just assumed that all women were allowed (regardless of genitalia and whatever else). Apparently not! Here's the thing: After 30ish years of womanhood (using women's bathrooms and all that), I have literally never seen a woman's genitals in that situation. We do have stalls. We do wrap towels around ourselves while we're getting changed in locker rooms. Clearly, it's fine. I have managed to live this long just assuming trans women use the same restrooms as cis women. Think about that for a minute! That's the level of impact that it makes; we don't even notice.
The people who do notice are the trans women who are discriminated against.
@TheGoose
The people being discrimnated against are all the ones using ladie's rooms. Those are always under-dimensioned, and there's always a huge wait for them, while we men enjoy a quick go in our correctly dimensioned rooms.
THAT is a problem. Last time, on the motorway, I had to wait wife & daughter for nearly 20 minutes because of stupid size norms. Boring for everyone.
How much privacy do you really need? Restrooms often have individual stalls, it's not like everyone's going to be hanging out in there. Personally I don't care if a woman uses a men's room or not while I'm in there. I assume they're there to do the same thing I am, to eliminate bodily waste.
And again, if you think that men are going to be pretending to be women in order to maybe catch a glimpse of women relieving themselves, then you're a fucking idiot.
Isn't the problem really that the whole concept of men's and women's bathrooms is a bit outdated? I mean, it's kinda prudish when you think about it. We're all in there to do the same thing.
When I was a little boy, this separation always made me think that there was something really different and secret going on in that forbidden space, the GIRLS' BATHROOM. Imagine my surprise when it turned out that they just piss and shit and fart in there like everyone else.
That "Christian News Network" is starting to really annoy me. Every time I see a headline from them like that....."Allowance of Men in Women's Restrooms"? No, it's "allowance of trans women in women's restrooms". And every time they do a story on same-sex marriage, they can't stop themselves from using quotes (as in "same sex 'marriage' ruling")
@ quinky
But if we desegregate genders in the bathroom, men might get the impression that they're not that different from women (and likewise for women), and we might not bother wasting our time on trivial matters related to gender.
And then the terrorists will win!
@quinky :
Wait, are you trying to tell me that women’s restrooms aren’t all looking like this:
image
But joking aside, you are right. And it isn’t like you normally have segregated bathrooms at home either.
> I'm thinking if men want to hang out (so to speak) in the women's can because they claim they are really women, someone should help out by removing the part that says otherwise.
You haven't actually talked to a trans woman about this, have you?
Mr. Poe FTW!
@ TheGoose: "The people who do notice are the trans women who are discriminated against."
You forgot to include red-faced, spittle spewing, axe-grinding fundie males. Apparently, these are the high-functioning sociopaths in our midst, whose natural urges to be rapists, serial killers, and thieves are only kept in check because they believe The-BIG-BOSS-In-The-Sky is watching their every move. Many of them are not nearly as deeply concerned about the erosion of bathroom taboos as they represent themselves to be, of course. It is just a talking point that props up their default hatred of anything that runs contrary to their sick, control-freak lifestyle. If we were to believe these histrionic drama queens, one would get the impression that we should have something like the vault doors in Get Smart in front of every Woman's room. Just substitute that for the phone booth.
image
@Thinking Allowed and co.
As much as I love you guys, I have to point out that lopping off a penis is not particularly helpful when it comes to gender reassignment. As far as I know, the modern surgery uses material from the penis to create the vagina and the clitoris. So it's important. Having some psycho cut a penis off isn't helping.
Edit: To be clear, I have no fucking clue what I am talking about.
Yes, you should absolutely pay for transition surgery for these people (the ones that want it, anyway, not all do). And then you should leave them the hell alone.
(A side-point: Why are they called restrooms? You go in, you do your business, you go out. Where's the rest?)
The privacy is in the stalls, silly-nilly; women's restrooms don't have urinals where everyone line up and peak at each other, ya know.
I'd say few men want to hang out in the women's, as there are much longer queues over there. Much better to hang out in the men's.
Everyone who's identifying as a woman is really woman.
Women's part is just a similar part sort of turned inside out; the clitoris is slightly banana-peal-shaped and encompass the whole female genital area. Just the glans peaks out through the skin.
Anatomy, not particularly SFW
Most toilets in France are mixed. So are German saunas, where you are not allowed to wear swimwear. And on sunny days, Germans strip naked in the park.
Having lives in Germany, I can say that this did not cause society to collapse.
@TheGoose
Yeah, but it's not like this bumblefuck knows the difference. A penis was there and now a vagina is there, ergo, penis was chopped off. Telling him that it's actually a fairly simple procedure to turn the penis into a vagina because the two organs are actually extremely similar would probably cause his brain to emit that dial up noise as smoke pours from his ears.
I don't get this bathroom nonsense. If you have a penis and identify as male, go in the men's room. If you have a vagina and identify as female, go in the women's room.
I know this may be an insensitive thing to say but... even if you do have long hair and female hormones and testosterones, an aritificial vagina... are you really a biological woman?
No, you're not. All you are is confused.
I don't get this whole trans thing and I never ever will.
@Excuse me, Mr. Dink? I broke your grill. I'm sorry
A few things, 1) There is more to biology of the sexes then just genitals and hormones. Also short hair is "in" for women now.
2)Look up pictures of actual transmen and transwomen, not just the stuff you see on TV and mass media, but actual everyday normal trans people. I've seen transmen manlier then most of the men in my family, and by no means do they even look like they should be allowed in a women's bathroom.
3) You don't have to get it. You just have to tolerate it and leave the rest of us alone to piss in peace.
@Excuse me etc.
"If you have a penis and identify as male, go in the men's room. If you have a vagina and identify as female, go in the women's room."
THe unisex toilets in "Ally McBeal". The mixed showers in "Starship Troopers".
NEXT!
@Swede
Some Americans are so hung up, they're offended at the mere thought of 'Toilet'. They'd have a serious attack of the vapours if they knew about British slang terms for such: 'Bog', 'Karzi' etc...! >:D
@Excuse me, Mr. Transphobe?
If I entered the men's restroom while you were in there, you would not be able to tell I was not born male. You'd see me go in a stall(Urinals? EWWW! Can someone say "dick-waving contest"?), hear me relieve myself, see me wash my hands, then watch me leave, all without knowing anything about what I have (or don't have) downstairs. I'm not confused. The confused ones are the people who are so insecure about themselves that they infringe on my right to pee.
@Thinking Allowed
That's the thing. I am not a medical person, and I am certainly no expert, I just thought it would not be easier if somebody cut a person's penis off.
My idea was: it makes more sense to have the genitalia connected and intact, with bloodflow and nerves and stuff, to allow the surgeons to do the appropriate operations. Especially since they typically use the penis to help make the vagina, etc.
Like I said, I'm no expert. I wasn't trying to insult you or cut you down. I just didn't see how it would be "easier" to have a random vigilante cut off a person's penis in a restroom. Like, why would that help the surgery? Surely it would just make things more desperate and dangerous.
In the days of the internet, the thought of somebody going to the trouble of psychiatric evaluation, hormone therapy, counselling, buying the outfits and the whole rigmarole of actually living their lives as a woman, just to catch a surreptitious glimpse of some ladybits seems to be taking a dedication to perversion a bit too far.
We had unisex bathrooms at our university with both toilets and showers. It was not at all unusual to see someone (male or female) walking down the hall in nothing but a towel. Heck, we would see the occasional poor soul walk across campus for a spare key in only a towel after locking themselves out of their room. Now, admittedly, our dorms were small (only about fifty people or so). However, as far as I'm aware, we never had a single privacy issue related to the washrooms. In fact, I would go so far to say it was the most comfortable/lest creepy non-private bathroom I've ever used. But maybe some people are just mature enough to handle knowing that there is someone of the opposite sex naked nearby without having a meltdown.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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