Sen. David Givens & Rep. Ben Waide (R-Kentucky) #fundie

Sen. David Givens & Rep. Ben Waide (R-Kentucky) #fundie kentucky.com

Several GOP lawmakers questioned new proposed student standards and tests that delve deeply into biological evolution during a Monday meeting of the Interim Joint Committee on Education.
In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether evolution was a fact and whether the biblical account of creationism also should be taught in Kentucky classrooms.
"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution," Sen. David Givens, R-Greensburg, said Tuesday in an interview.
...
Another committee member, Rep. Ben Waide, R-Madisonville, said he had a problem with evolution being an important part of biology standards.
"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up," Waide said. "My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

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old comment by JeanP

*"In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether evolution was a fact and whether the biblical account of creationism also should be taught in Kentucky classrooms."

ACT is one of the tests which are used by colleges for choosing theirs students and they want them evaluated on the true science and thus the ACT company want to evaluate students on real sciences.

*"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,"

Me too as an exemple of pseudoscience: they will learn what separe science (reason, facts) and pseudoscience (fanatism, lies).

*"Another committee member, Rep. Ben Waide, R-Madisonville, said he had a problem with evolution being an important part of biology standards."

"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution", by Theodosius Dobzhansky, a proto-Intelligent Design (as a answer to another fundie, Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz, who believed to geocentrism because the Koran says so).

Evolution is an important topic in biology and is thus an important part of biology standards.

*"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of creation has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

Fixed it for you.

Good luck for the Kentucky students who will have problems to catch up with other students who have learned real sciences.

old comment by Dr. Razark

Ok, so we have two "theories", evolution via natural selection, and creationism.

The theory of evolution explains what happened, how it happened, why it happened. The "theory" of creation explains "book says goddidit".

The theory of evolution can be used to make predictions about what will happen with a population of organisms over time. The "theory" of creation cannot be used to make any predictions.

The theory of evolution began as an observation of the world, and has been constantly refined by further observation and confirmed through multiple other investigations, some of which were not even possible until a hundred years after the theory was first developed. The "theory" of creation is taken from a book of myths written thousands of years ago, and has constantly been shown to not stand up to the evidence, and has never been observed.

The theory of evolution is a theory, which is the point in science when you can say you have a pretty damn good idea of what is actually going on. I don't hear anyone complaining that "gravity is just a theory". The "theory" of creation is not a theory. It's maybe a hypothesis. It's a myth. It's a story made up by bronze age men to explain things they couldn't begin to understand.

"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method."

That's actually a very good point. Please let us know when you've come up with a repeatable experiment to test your creation hypothesis.

old comment by dionysus

"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,"

For fucks sakes, creation is not science! Whether it's true or not (it is) isn't even relevant at this point. Creationism doesn't follow the scientific method and was derived by revelation (supposedly) ergo it isn't science. You don't teach Shakespeare in math class, why would you teach religion in science class?

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science Darwin made it up,"

All theories are made up, you idiot. It's not like there's some theory tree out there that grows scientific theories and you can pick them when they're ripe. No, they have to be invented before the concept can exist in our knowledge base. As the Theory of Evolution follows the scientific method, it is science. You may not agree with it, it could be wrong (highly unlikely) but it is science by fucking definition.

"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

150 years is never? But let's ignore even the vast majority of that time and focus on just Darwin's time. Darwin actually hesitated to publish his findings BECAUSE of the huge amount of backlash he knew it would cause. He had numerous scientific rivals that wanted to destroy his theory (as happens with any revolutionary theory) and yet he was not only able to defend it but it replaced every other idea up until that point (including Lamarckism and even creationism) and was able to become the most important theory in all of biology. Even the Theory of Relativity wasn't able to completely supplant Newton's theories (which are more practical on a small scale).

old comment by Horsefeathers

"In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether evolution was a fact and whether the biblical account of creationism also should be taught in Kentucky classrooms."

You people just don't learn, do you? You do stupid shit like this, get sued for it, and then cry "persecution!" because you did something you should have known you couldn't do to begin with.

"'I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,' Sen. David Givens, R-Greensburg, said Tuesday in an interview."

That's because 1: you're a fucking moron; 2: you're a creationist goober, or you're bought and paid for by creationist goobers; 3: you don't know what the hell a theory actually is.

"Another committee member, Rep. Ben Waide, R-Madisonville, said he had a problem with evolution being an important part of biology standards."

Well now, isn't that just tough shit. You might as well say that you have a problem with numbers being part of mathematical standards.

"'The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science Darwin made it up,' Waide said."

Fuck you, Waide. Why don't you and Senator Dumbfuck up there go get a dictionary and look up the word "theory" for me.

"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method."

I will personally donate $1,000 dollars to your reelection campaign if you can accurately describe the scientific method without having one of your bootlick lackeys look it up for you.

"Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

I'll kick in an extra $1,000 if you can accurately describe the Theory of Evolution under the same conditions.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science Darwin made it up,"

As opposed to, say... an invisible sky fairy taking a handful of dirt and making a man out of it?

image

Oh no more, please Mr. Wilde, I am bereft of ribs! And as for this:

"the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny"

Then care to explain [i]this[/i]?

I'm afraid that not only has Evolution undergone the most intense scientific scrutiny, and stands tall as fact, your own Constitutional law says it's Fact. And Romans 13:1-5 says you Creationists don't even have the right to think otherwise.

Evolution is proven fact. Creation is lies. We Atheists are Superior, you fundies are inferior. Deal. With. It.

old comment by checkmate

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science

99% of science consists of theories. There are very few laws. Givens and Waide know that. They're lying for Jesus again.

I actually have nothing against creation myths being taught in classrooms. Not necessarily in science class, but creation myths belong to culture and history. I do, however, believe that all creation myths should be given equal time. There are tons of them. Some are bland and boring, like Genesis, but some are really cool.

Buddhism says no one should waste their time asking about creation because nobody can answer the question. That should make for an interesting day in class.

old comment by J. James

Several GOP lawmakers questioned new proposed medical standards and tests that delve deeply into germ theory during a Monday meeting of the Interim Joint Committee on Ph.Ds.
In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state med school testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether germ theory of disease was a fact and whether the biblical account of demon-caused plagues and humours should also be taught in Kentucky medical schools.
"I would hope that biblical medicine is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside germ theory," Sen. David Givens, R-Greensburg, said Tuesday in an interview.
...
Another committee member, Rep. Ben Waide, R-Madisonville, said he had a problem with germ theory being an important part of medical standards.
"The germ theory is a theory, and essentially the theory is not science Pasteur made it up," Waide said. "My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the germ theory of disease has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

old comment by sidhe

Kentucky, like a lot of the southernish U.S., is a *really strange place.*

Far stranger than the stereotypes, because there's a split between modern, intelligent, sophisticates coming to the area for industry or the odd number of research institutions, and people who make the Beverly Hillbillies look urbane.

I was at the Louisville, KY zoo several years ago (ack, probably about 15 now), looking at the chimpanzee exhibit. There was a dad there, pointing out the similarities between the way the chimps were acting and how people act, the opposable thumbs, etc. to his kids, and explaining (simplified) how this indicated common descent. Really cool moment.

Then another family came in, with about a full set of teeth between the 5 of them, and the dad slaps one of the kids in the back of the head and yells, "BOYS, LOOK AT THEM MONKEYS!" Then they walked away.

Like I said, the South is a Bunuel film.

ETA: It's worth mentioning that the Kentucky legislature has had many a moment of stupidity. There was a lengthy speech given (around the time I made the aforementioned zoo visit) on the dangers of tire fires at used tire shops, and the difference between a car tire fire and a truck tire fire. Save that with a heavy western Kentucky accent, "tire" and "fire" are practically indistinguishable from "tar" and "far."

Sen. David Givens & Rep. Ben Waide (R-Kentucky) #fundie kentucky.com

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