It's just that if a child finds she likes and trusts a particular adult, and the adult likes and feels love for that child - why shouldn't part of their closeness have a sensual element - the adult can teach the child about hygiene, biology, physical development, interpersonal relationships, mutuality, love and respect, as well as how to safely experience and give pleasure - so many things which another child wouldn't be able to.
Whilst such a relationship would risk being harmful to the child in the context of modern, consumer society because of the intense stigma the child will eventually become aware of, I don't think that such a nurturing, consensual, child-led relationship would be intrinsically any more harmful than children playing at sex with other children.
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"I don't think that such a nurturing, consensual, child-led relationship would be intrinsically any more harmful than children playing at sex with other children."
And why would you think that?
'nurturing, consensual, child-led relationship'
ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGG!!! MY EYES, MY EYES!!! JUST WHEN I THOUGHT FSTDTs COULDN'T STUMBLE UPON A MORE HORRIFYING SPECTACLE THAN MARJAN SIKLIC!!!
I don't know whether or not this guy is prone to turning up on threads critical of him to troll them, like Siklic is, but if he does turn up here, could you please ban him, Distind? I don't want pedos here.
the adult can teach the child about hygiene, biology, physical development, interpersonal relationships, mutuality, love and respect, as well as how to safely experience and give pleasure
as well as how to safely experience and give pleasure
Holy. Fucking. Shit. This is disturbing, somebody needs to keep you away from children at all times. Might at well ready the mizzium mortars and Weirds, seeing as I can't prevent your existence now.
How does this not have 10 billion WTFs already?
nurturing, consensual, child-led relationship
There is no such thing in the context of a child adult sexual relationship. Children can't give consent. And the adult is far, FAR more likely to be abusing the child and using the child for power. Even if we assume the pedo has the very best intentions, it's an intrinsically uneven relationship and, again, the child still can't consent.
A child ought not to learn about s-e-x until shortly before puberty. From books, that is, in a class-room environment, not in bed with a pedophile or hebephile.
What intense stigma will the child eventually come aware of? A child is not mature enough to give informed consent, and is used to follow the guidance of adults. “Child-led” is just nonsense! Even people over age of consent are not always mature enough to decide for themselves what to do.
Children ought not to be playing at sex with other children either. Older children will probably push younger children into things they can't handle.
Fine papercut100, I'll agree that it's okay for a child and adult to have a "sensual closeness", if you'll agree that my foot and your balls can too. Just an FYI... I also might need to see a "sensual closeness" between your anus and a couple objects I just have to go and pull out of my toolbox. Too bad I already threw away those old, rusty box-cutter blades....
Welp, I"m going to start handing out free mace to children now. Child molesters seem to be coming out of the woodwork, after all. Maybe an actual mace would work better for defence. It's certainly more intimidating.
They can teach them about biology, physical development, relationships, love and respect, and other things without having sex with them. Shocking, isn't it? It reminds me of this. And that's a disgusting feeling.
Nominating for Gary Glitter award.
Now, go away.
@Matthew:
Rolf Harris? As in the guy who did Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport? Holy shit, that was my childhood! My mom used to sing it all the time. Childhoods ruined, indeed.
Are these bozos in a contest to see who can say the dumbest, grossest, stupidest, most batzoid nutso thing?
I swear, it's like frummers, bigots & maniacs like such are constantly trying one-up each other in the deranged dept!
@Passerby ,
It may have something to do with the recent conviction of Rolf Harris (a famous artist and children's entertainer) of child molestation being in the news a lot (that's what the article this quote was a comment on was about, at any rate). I don't suppose he or his crimes are well-known stateside, but it's a big deal in the UK and Australia.
I generally dislike it when people on here comment with things like "die in a fire"...
I suspect this guy is THAT guy; the one that cruises past parks in a windowless Ford Econoline van with bags of candy & IPods in the back while he patiently grooms his wispy little mustache.
I do hope the authorities are keeping an eye on him; smacks of a Gary Glitter 2.0.
I don't think that such a nurturing, consensual, child-led relationship would be intrinsically any more harmful than children playing at sex with other children.
There is no such thing as a child-led relationship. What you are talking about is coercion, and sexual assault of a child by an adult. Most children don't even know what sex is, you disgusting perv.
"I don't think that such a nurturing, consensual, child-led relationship"
"But officer, she seduced ME!"
"It's just that if a child finds she likes and trusts a particular adult, and the adult likes and feels love for that child - why shouldn't part of their closeness have a sensual element"
image
*headdesk*
Maybe... Were you molested as a child, Papercut? Are you an example of Freud being right? I hate Freud being right.
@ papercut100
Informed consent is not only about having information but being developmentally capable of utilizing said information. You can explain nutrition all you want to a 4 year old but if you ask them if they want candy and ice cream for every meal, they're still going to say "yes". Because of their developmental level, they're incapable of delaying gratification in favor of making healthy nutritional choices even if they have information about nutrition.
Also, we have laws that protect even older people from being coerced into sexual activities by people who are in a position of authority over them (bosses, teachers, medical professionals) When it comes to children, all adults are in positions of authority over them due to the difference in power levels between children and adults.
@DJ
Your explanation is right on the mark, and it also just fell on deaf ears. Papercut 100 is a pedophile, so he will use every excuse he can to justify his actions, calling what he does, or wants to do "love", convincing himself that his victims "consented" and "enjoyed" his abuse. Hopefully he will soon be incarcerated.
Unlike the others here, I'm not concerned with trying to be the better person. The civilized debater, the person trying to prove a point.
Papercut100, and other anons defending the same point, you're child molestation apologists. You simply deserve to die, as painfully and as long as possible. The world would be better off without you in it.
I was born a sociopath. I have a heart beating in my chest that cannot love. That feels little or nothing. I see humans as interesting (at times) objects.
However, unlike you pieces of filth, I work to sublimate and repress my sadistic urges.
You all not only possibly go out and indulge yourselves as horribly as possible, you defend others who would do so. Children are pure things, and even I can say they do not deserve your predations.
Papercut and Anons, you are animals and will be put down as such if and when you act up in support of your warped ideologies. The law is very, very good about finding you pieces of trash. I look forward to that.
^ I cannot believe nobody has done that to papercut and his friends I am sure are lurking around.
I mean, I am almost 70% sure if you excavated his backyard, you'd find a large number of very small bodies.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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