To support the Constitution of the United States one must uphold an underlying principle of that document, liberty of conscience, which is the right of every person to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience, without interference by the government. Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, in his "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States" in 1833, observed concerning the First Amendment that "The rights of conscience are, indeed, beyond the just reach of any human power. They are given by God and cannot be encroached upon by human authority without a criminal disobedience of the precepts of natural, as well as revealed religion." ... It was a specific God who endowed us with a freedom of conscience with which government could not interfere.
...Our Constitution states, "Each House [of Congress] shall be the judge ... of the qualifications of its own members." Enough evidence exists for Congress to question Ellison's qualifications to be a member of Congress as well as his commitment to the Constitution in view of his apparent determination to embrace the Quran and an Islamic philosophy directly contrary to the principles of the Constitution. But common sense alone dictates that in the midst of a war with Islamic terrorists we should not place someone in a position of great power who shares their doctrine. In 1943, we would never have allowed a member of Congress to take their oath on "Mein Kampf," or someone in the 1950s to swear allegiance to the "Communist Manifesto." Congress has the authority and should act to prohibit Ellison from taking the congressional oath today!
37 comments
Yes, let's ignore the entire Constitutional point about how there should be no religious test for public offer.
And yes, let's ignore interpretations of the koran that permit the idea of representative democracy as being halal.
And yes while we're at it, let's ignore the entire First Amendment Jurisprudence dealing with the striking down of convictions under the Smith Act (designed to keep communist from holding public office or any federal jobs).
And even if all muslims believed what you fallaciously ascribed to them, let's ignore all those pesky US Supreme Court precedents on Communist membership that distinguish being a simple member of such an organisation as opposed to an active member wanting to overthrow the government by force.
"In 1943, we would never have allowed a member of Congress to take their oath on "Mein Kampf,""
Joe Kennedy would have.
"or someone in the 1950s to swear allegiance to the "Communist Manifesto."
Hell no. J. Edgar would'a smacked 'em down with his purse.
We are not at war with every single freaking Muslim in the world, we are at war with the dangerous ones, who are an incredibly small minority. Here's how it will work okay: we let him talk the oath on the Qu'ran, or no one get's to use any holy book at all, including you. This way it's fair.
""To support the Constitution of the United States one must uphold an underlying principle of that document, liberty of conscience, which is the right of every person to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience, without interference by the government."
"Enough evidence exists for Congress to question Ellison's qualifications to be a member of Congress as well as his commitment to the Constitution in view of his apparent determination to embrace the Quran and an Islamic philosophy"
There has to be some kind of award for the mental gymnastics it takes to conclude that constitutional guarantees against government interference means that Congress can interfere with the rights of Muslims!
So, when you're Governor of Alabama, all non-Christians will be expelled from office, yes? I mean, how can you trust them to keep their pledge of allegiance or whatever bullshit it is?
I´m sorry to ask. But doesn´t the Bible, specially the OT contradict the principles of the nation too?, what is the use then to swear upon a book of faith he doesn´t believe?, if there is liberty of conscience, be it full. Or do I have to explain you WHAT AN OATH IS MEANT FOR?
"How comes he hasn't been kicked out of office yet?"
Good news Adrian, Roy Moore was kicked out of office! When Moore was chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, he installed a massive 10 Ten Commandments monument in the court house. When he defied a federal court order to remove it, his fellow supreme court justices booted him. He also got his butt handed to him in the GOP primary for governor of Alabama. Imagine that; Moore was too fundy for Alabama Republicans!
Aagcobb: Well, in that case, if he was defrocked, he shouldn't still be using the title of "Judge." That's misrepresentation -- but of course lying is a major tool of the trade for fundies.
~David D.G.
I think he's saying that only the Christian Gawd upholds freedom of conscience, and the Muslim Gawd upholds terrorism. Therefore you can't be a Muslim and uphold freedom of conscience, one of our Constitutional rights.
Yeah, I can translate religous idiocy. It's a gift.
Congress has the authority and should act to prohibit Ellison from taking the congressional oath today!
Article IV, Section 1, Clause 3 disagrees. He has to take an oath to uphold the Constitution. His religious beliefs cannot be put at issue in determining his fitness for office. There is no textual support for the proposition that Article I, Section 5, Clause 1 ("Each House shall be the judge...of the qualifications of its own members") overrides the prohibition against religious oaths. Justice Story's commentaries are hardly dispositive.
If this were your average garden-variety fundie, I'd actually be impressed that he's read the Constitution. But this is (was) a judge. Good God man, you went to law school . Did you sleep through the classes on statutory interpretation or what?
How can it be that I, as a foreigner, know more about the US constitution than someone who was is a freaking judge!?
But the fact that he was kicked out of office gives me new hope for humanity. Rationalwiki just destroyed that hope again, he was re-elected as Chief Justice in 2012
At least they had to remove the monument.
"It seems to me to be a moot point because neither the communist manifesto or \"mein kampf\" are religious texts they are political writings and would be about as effective a tool for a swearing in as swearing on a copy of moby dick."
I hate to break this to you, but Islam has a lot of explicitly political aspects as well (and they're not obsolete). It's a "complete way of life" according to devout Muslim themselves and both a religion and political ideology.
The Qur'an mandates warfare against unbelievers in verse 9:29, simply because they are unbelievers. This is political, not just religious.
The Sunni Shafi'i manual Reliance of the Traveler goes into detail about this as well as many other laws that society should implement if it wants to truly follow Allah, but all 4 schools of Sunni Islam are political.
When will you learn?
"In 1943, we would never have allowed a member of Congress to take their oath on 'Mein Kampf,' or someone in the 1950s to swear allegiance to the 'Communist Manifesto.'"
-So what if a modern GOP candidate wanted to use 'Atlas Shrugged?'
By the way to the person who said:
"It seems to me to be a moot point because neither the communist manifesto or \"mein kampf\" are religious texts they are political writings and would be about as effective a tool for a swearing in as swearing on a copy of moby dick."
John Quincy Adams took the oath on a book of constitutional law.
Of course Ellison can swear on whatever he likes, but it does raise some questions. Does he believe for example that Muslims must wage warfare against unbelievers like 9:29 says? Does he believe Muslims should be merciful among one another and ruthless against unbelievers like 48:29 says? Does he renounce the inherent theocratic elements of Islamic theology?
Given his ties to CAIR alone I would advise against voting for him next time if you value your freedoms. He's done nothing convince me that he is in any way "moderate".
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.