LittleNipper #fundie

LittleNipper #fundie christianforums.com

Just How Slfish Are Atheists?

What have atheist's done to contibute to a better society? How many schools and universities have they established in the name of atheism, or have they ( as I suspect) only taken over those already established in the name of GOD? How many hospitals exist because atheists care anything for the old and sickly, or is it that they have promoted suicide, putting the old to sleep to lessen the burden on themselves? How many countries have been founded by Atheists, or again, have atheists only taken over pre-existing nations that were founded by various faiths? What patriotic songs have atheist's inspired? Any spiritual hymns? Has the term IN GOD WE TRUST been shown to hurt anyone, or is it just an issue that atheist's find troublesome? Whould you rather live in an atheistic place or nation, or would you rather live in a place or nation that considers GOD the most important thing to know about...?
Does it really seem that atheists really give or do they simply demand for themselves? Is any help an atheist provides motivated by his atheism or is his compassion motivated by the religious concerns around him? Are atheists takers or givers? You decide.....

28 comments

old comment by Berny

Just another poorly educated halfwit with little to no knowledge of the history of his own country. Several of the founding fathers were not Christians in the fundie sense. Deists perhaps, and a few were atheists.
As far as IN GOD WE TRUST on money, the inscription has not always been there. It wasn't until 1938 that all coins consistently had it. Paper money didn't get it until 1957. As to the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance, the words "under God" were added during the hysteria of the McCarthy era. Kind of a propos seeing as we seem to be entering a new era of McCarthyism, only this time its the "evil ter'rist Satanic Mooslim" they're all afraid of.

old comment by Papabear

Well, Carnegie and Edison were atheists. I presume that we agree that public libraries and light bulbs benefit society.
Concerning the founding of countries, it may shock LN that none (zero, zip, not-a-one)of the first seven U.S. presidents was anything close to an orthodox Christian. Why, oh why, LN, would an atheist write a spiritual hymn? "In God We Trust" does not belong on our money. It violates the establishment clause and it is simply untrue. I am a citizen of the USA and I (certainly part of "We") do not trust in God. Neither do other atheists, agnostics, Hindus, etc.. It is offensive to me to be required to pay for things with little handbills proclaiming belief in God. I would rather live in an atheistic America, thank you. An America where cruel and absurd dogma didn't contaminate the citizens minds. Altruism is not a trait exclusively possessed by Christians. Don't get F'd by the ineffable. Papabear

old comment by Crosis

<<< How many schools and universities have they established in the name of atheism >>>
In the name of atheism, none, because we don't demand that you share our lack of belief - our only demand is that you give us the same courtesy. But plenty of schools have been founded by non-religious folks. <<< How many hospitals exist because atheists care anything for the old and sickly, or is it that they have promoted suicide, putting the old to sleep to lessen the burden on themselves? >>> We'll probably never know, because most of us don't go showing off our atheism like you folks do your religion. And very few atheists promote suicide for anyone (though there are a few nutjobs, just like the religious side). <<< How many countries have been founded by Atheists >>> This one, for starters. <<< What patriotic songs have atheist's inspired? Any spiritual hymns? >>> Does it matter? (And why would you expect "hymns" from an atheist anyway?) <<< Whould you rather live in an atheistic place or nation, or would you rather live in a place or nation that considers GOD the most important thing to know about...? >>> All else being equal, the former. As much as we may bitch about the fundies' interference in our daily lives, it's probably better here than most places - but that is despite, not because of, religion. <<< Does it really seem that atheists really give or do they simply demand for themselves? >>> Atheists, as a whole, are no more or less selfish than the religious. <<< Is any help an atheist provides motivated by his atheism or is his compassion motivated by the religious concerns around him? >>> Neither. It's motivated by the fact that most of us, believe it or not, are pretty good people who just happen not to share your superstition. (Nice try giving religion credit for the good things the non-religious do, though.) <<< Are atheists takers or givers? >>> Both, just like everyone else.

old comment by Seomah

My 26-year-old sister is getting married next september. She has assisted to a "premarital course" from monday to tuesday this same week, at the evenings. After the course, the priest has told every couple that the church (roman catholic) asks them to pay 120 euros as a "marriage fee". If you don't pay, you don't get married. That's the "official" fee. Then, the priest asked for a "donation" to give to the married couple who assisted the course giving the lessons, and again everyone paid, this time a voluntary (but induced) donation. Then, the week you are to marry, the girls that are friends of the couple have to clean up the entire church, and the couple has to pay the priest another not-so-voluntary donation. Don't tell me who has love for the money.
I just remembered another thing. The town halls pays subventions to a lot of associations, including two I am in. The usual way of doing it is that you first pay for the services (for example, a music band), then you take the bill to the town hall, and then (maybe 1 or 2 months later), they pay you the amount of the bill. With the local church, first the church asks for the money (for flowers, for example), then the church gets the money from the town hall, then the church spends the money in whatever they want, because they don't have to present any bill nor respound to anyone. I could go on a long time, just will say that the way the church behaves is one of the most important reasons I'm NOT a believer.

old comment by Maronan

<<<Just How Slfish Are Atheists>>>
Well, I'm guessing that all slow fish are atheists. I've never seen a theist fish. Or did you mean shellfish? Same thing, but I don't like shellfish. <<<What have atheist's done to contibute to a better society?>>> Actually, plenty. <<<How many schools and universities have they established in the name of atheism, or have they ( as I suspect) only taken over those already established in the name of GOD?>>> Why would anyone found a university in "the name of atheism?" Is there a need to brand a school with the fact that its founder didn't take myths as true? How many schools were founded in the name of aleprechaunism? <<<How many hospitals exist because atheists care anything for the old and sickly, or is it that they have promoted suicide, putting the old to sleep to lessen the burden on themselves?>>> Again, there's no need to brand a hospital with the term "atheist." It's not necessary. Obviously, some hospitals are branded with the term "Christian" as a form of propaganda. Still, why do you Christians need medical care? Aren't hospitals merely the fallible creations of man? Why don't you just pray when you get sick? Won't God heal a true believer? The Bible says so; why don't you obey it? <<<How many countries have been founded by Atheists...>>> Ummm, this one? <<<...or again, have atheists only taken over pre-existing nations that were founded by various faiths?>>> Well, some. There was the destruction of the Aztecs, the colonization and takeover of Asia and Africa, and quite a number of attacks on native Americans. Oh, wait, the Christians did all that. My bad! <<<What patriotic songs have atheist's inspired?>>> Since this is scarecly relevant, there is no need for an insightful comment here. Really, what do patriotic songs matter? <<<Any spiritual hymns?>>> O. K. What do I do here? [Acme Dictionary is starting up] Atheist- a person who does not hold beliefs in any form of god. Hymn- A song of praise to a god. [Quit Acme Dictionary] As we can see, the answer is quite obvious. If you don't see it, LittleNipper, I shall be forced to smack you in the head with a clue-by-four. <<<Has the term IN GOD WE TRUST been shown to hurt anyone, or is it just an issue that atheist's find troublesome?>>> Well, it DOES violate the Establishment Clause by flat-out rejecting atheism, polytheism, pantheism, and deism. (There would be no point in "trusting" a deist god who won't or can't do anything for you and won't or can't alter the universe at this point.) Furthermore, the "In God We Trust" phrase clearly rejects any monotheistic religion that views its god as impotent, unwilling to help, unfriendly, a liar, uncaring about humanity, or dead. In short, the phrase "In God We Trust" on the money makes it clear that the government endorses Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, the three religions whose god fits the job description, and rejects all others. This may not have any immediate, physical negative effects, but what's the point of creating a slippery slope and telling a fair percentage of the population that their beliefs are "inferior?" <<<Whould you rather live in an atheistic place or nation, or would you rather live in a place or nation that considers GOD the most important thing to know about...?>>> The former, Gomer. Would YOU like to live in a nation that considers God to be the most important thing to know about? If so, I will gladly buy you a one-way ticket to Iran. <<<Does it really seem that atheists really give or do they simply demand for themselves?>>> Atheists, like all people, give and take. Of course, spending some of your own money on yourself isn't quite "demanding for yourself," so I can't just say "both" flat out. <<<Is any help an atheist provides motivated by his atheism or is his compassion motivated by the religious concerns around him?>>> I don't think any atheists are motivated to help others *by their atheism* any more than by their aleprechaunism. We *are* motivated to help others because we see others in need, and know that we'd better help, because there's no god to wave his magic finger and make it better. Why are Christians motivated to help? Doesn't your god help the poor? If not, don't they deserve it? That being said, what exactly is "compassion motivated by the religious concerns around someone?" Do you mean to suggest that anyone helping anyone else is actually doing so because they're secretly religious? Or that helping people is inherently religious and no one else can do it? Do you really mean that humans are inherently so selfish that they'll only help others if an authority threatens them with punishment or offers rewards? <<<Are atheists takers or givers? You decide.>>> Both, just like everyone else. Thus ends the line-by-line mocking.

old comment by NotMe

What good has christianity done in their early days?
Well, for starters they fed some lions. But back to some nicer things. I know about 3 crusades sponored by the christians to take back a country they never owned. Did religious people start naming pieces of dirt a country? Hopefully you know your mistaken. There have been territorial disputes since the dawn of life. Animals kill others that tresspass. Are they theistic? They haven't got a soul now do they? Did caveman believe in a god who did not care to (presumably) show his face again until he told abraham to take a hike toward a little country called kanaan? Didn't the jews kill nearly all inhabitants to take over the country? Didn't christians do the same thing over and over again in history? Convert or die politics were quite popular in the "glory" days of the church. And let's see what they did to people with knowledge about herbs and curing people. I believe they were burned at the stake or drowned. Yeah, I get the point. I will convert to christianity again and kill a few infidels to prove my altruistic nature.

old comment by LDM

"Whould you rather live in an atheistic place or nation, or would you rather live in a place or nation that considers GOD the most important thing to know about...?"

I'd like to live in a place where people can spell, for one thing. But give me atheist nation, any day, where health, technology and environmental science are the most important things to know about.

"Does it really seem that atheists really give or do they simply demand for themselves? Is any help an atheist provides motivated by his atheism or is his compassion motivated by the religious concerns around him? Are atheists takers or givers? You decide....."

I know an atheist couple, who, when Katrina struck, personally purchased plane tickets for a displaced family they knew there, and set them up in a hotel until they were able to get resettled. What did you do? Pray? Give a token $10.00 to your church? Go to a refugee shelter and hand out bibles?

You don't hear a lot about atheists giving, because they don't feel the need to show off what "good little atheists" they are every time they drop a nickel in a donation box. They're doing it because people need help, not because they think some cosmic sky daddy is keeping score.