Poppy's girl, would you "empathize" with a woman who killed her 2-year-old child who was an extreme mental or physical defective? Would you refuse to condemn that? I guess I'm trying to get at what makes you think you are pro-life (or anti-abortion). Because if you wouldn't empathize with the mother of the 2-year-old, and would call that murder that should be punished, but not the killer of the unborn child, I hope you can see the problem with calling yourself "pro-life". Likewise, if you empathize with both of them, and wouldn't condemn either one, then you are pro-murder, it's just that you are selective about which murders are OK to commit. In other words, it's OK to kill babies that are judicially innocent, but it's a horrible crime to kill a man who has spent his adult life butchering babies and burning their bodies in an in-house incinerator whose smoke and ash has wafted through the breezes of Witchita for decades.
There we have it.
42 comments
Baby =! fetus =! zygote =! blastocyst
That's why we have different words for them, because they are different things.
The Full Quiver Movement is responsible for the Duggars and the kids she keeps poppin' out. She's on 18 or 19, by now and counting. EWWW! A really disgusting movement, IMHO.
They think they've been charged by god to populate the earth, so they can have an "army of god" to rule over the rest of us. The more children "god sends", the better. Every child is a blessing from the sky daddy. The more, the better. YECH!
Yeah, I really start to worry when anyone, fundie or not, breaks out the whole "empathy is evil!" schtick. I mean, who is screwed up enough to attack the trait which most contributes to our ability to get along in large groups, such as it is? With the fundies, it's even more ironic -- since they accuse everyone who disagrees with them of "trying to bring about the downfall of society" while they attack the one thing that makes "society" possible in the first place.
If you are so concerned about the children, why aren't you adopting some disadvantaged or disabled children?
Oops, no, I forgot. The whole point of the QF movement is that bio children are superior.
Anyone with a heart ought to feel pity for a parent (either one) whose child is experiencing so much hopeless suffering that the parent feels moved to free the child from a body that is just a prison. I don't think it's the "right" thing to do, though.
There is a big difference, however, between a child that has been BORN and a non-sentient fetus. I think that if the parents wish to terminate a pregnancy that is going to result in a hopelessly handicapped child, that is their right. I also believe that if they choose to bring such a child in the world, there ought to be a healthcare system in place to provide them all the help they need, regardless of their income and luck in finding a job with insurance benefits.
And finally, where I continually find a complete lack of empathy is amongst fundies. They have no empathy for women who become pregnant by rape, no empathy for parents who don't want to bring a hopelessly handicapped child into the world, no empathy for a very young girl who has made a mistake and gotten pregnant. They have no empathy for living, breathing, sentient beings. The only empathy they are capable of is for a clump of cells that they would be unable to identify if they saw it outside of a womb. That is a sign of deep mental illness, my friends, and it scares the shit out of me.
Translation;
"It's not ok to kill a clump of cells because i'm a moron and think just what my preacher tells me to think. But later if they're of a different color, religion, political bias, or for some reason just don't agree completely with me, then you can kill them"
"but it's a horrible crime to kill a man who has spent his adult life butchering babies and burning their bodies in an in-house incinerator whose smoke and ash has wafted through the breezes of Witchita for decades."
Apples and oranges, Watchman. That's like saying someone who had scrambled eggs for breakfast had just slaughtered chickens.
An embryo/fetus/zygote is not a child or a person. The women whose lives Dr. Tiller saved, however, were people.
If you have to bring "as many babies as God gives you" into the world, wouldn't it be better for them to be able to support themselves? Why would God give you severely deformed or disabled children in the first place?
See, this is why I don't buy this religious reproductive crap.
"Poppy's girl, would you "empathize" with a woman who killed her 2-year-old child who was an extreme mental or physical defective?"
Sure, Watchman, why not? In fact, let's kill all the kids under 2 years old. We can feed them to the poor while we're at it.
Now then, since I've jumped off your slipery slope, would you care to go away and let the people who actually know how to discuss things reasonably get back to doing so?
When are these people going to realize the difference between a live baby and an unborn fetus?
And why don't the "quiver full" people adopt all those unwanted babies? They think that they need to have as many as or more children than they can handle, so how do they know that God isn't calling them to adopt needy children?
I dunno, I see a subtle difference between a 2 year old baby and a clump of cells that has the potential to become a 2 year old baby.
Actually, its not that subtle.
@ EvoPagan:
I think this type of Christianity tends to attract those with sociopathic tendencies. It's a perfect cover for them: They don't necessarily lack empathy for people because god says to - it's because they are incapable of having it. Also, maybe it's easier for them to have empathy for something that can't talk back and possibly challenge their way of thinking. Therefore, they not only lack empathy, they are insecure.
I'm willing to bet that some of these people don't even really understand what love is. There's tough love, and then there's being a cold jackass. More often than not, they do the latter.
And because quoting this might help me get the damned song out of my head, "Real love/Won't somebody show me/Real love/Is anyone true anymore/Real love/ Won't somebody show me/Real love/where are you?"
Here's the thing, though: giving the abortion doctor a death sentence isn't pro-life either, because you're ending a life. Look at the current Catholic stance: the Roman Catholic Church condemns both abortion AND the death penalty, on the basis of considering life sacred.
"you are pro-murder, it's just that you are selective about which murders are OK to commit. "
Are you in favor of the death penalty?
"In other words, it's OK to kill babies that are judicially innocent, but it's a horrible crime to kill a man who has spent his adult life butchering babies and burning their bodies in an in-house incinerator whose smoke and ash has wafted through the breezes of Witchita for decades."
I believe he's talking about Dr. Tiller here.
And the Quiverful movement people are INSANE. Ask any woman who's managed to escape.
If the baby comes out significantly retarded I actually see no reason why it shouldn't be euthanized.
Not Down's syndrome bad, but more like "complete vegetable" bad.
I read some of that FQ thread. One poster said phrases like "difficult decision" are red flags of pro-abortion. Um, if someone's all for it, it wouldn't be difficult. I saw nothing in "poppy's girl"'s post that was terribly out of line with the rest of the discussion, but still, she was attacked for what - having a pussy AND a brain?
(Full disclosure: mine wasn't really difficult. There's no way I was going to be able to care for a kid, and even being pregnant was likely going to kill me or fuck me up bad. Since I already have a name and pay taxes, there'd be more paperwork, so I got that thieving parasite the hell out of me.)
Watchman's also pro-murder - he likes Scott Roeder (charged with George Tiller's murder). No doubt he also supports such filth as Paul Hill, John Salvi, Michael Griffin, James Kopp, Eric Rudolph & Clayton Waagner - all sociopaths, all fundy Christians who committed homicide & terrorism in the name of Watchman's God. Fucking hypocrite asshole.
@ refuter of fundy vermin
He wrote a eulogy for Paul Hill (http://www.covenantnews.com/murch030905.htm ), so my guess is that you're right--he supports them all.
Edit: And for those of you who don't know, Bruce Murch, the author of the eulogy, is Watchman. I know this because I know him personally, but you can find the homepage of his website (http://www.fullquivermission.com/ ) underneath his user profile on his forum.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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