Andrea Tantaros #fundie

Andrea Tantaros #fundie rawstory.com

(On a talk show discussing the Senate Torture Report scandal)
Out Numbered host Andrea Tantaros agreed that she didn’t need transparency at the CIA either.

“The United States of America is awesome, we are awesome,” she said. “But we’ve had this discussion. We’ve closed the book on it, and we’ve stopped doing it. And the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are. This administration wants to have this discussion to show us how we’re not awesome.”

42 comments

old comment by Sangfroid

We started doing it because we were all scared and ready to turn our government over to the writers of the "24" TV program. We all believed that Saddam Hussein or maybe it was Al-Qaeda or maybe it was the Taliban had WMDs and kicking the shit of some Arab cabbie or sodomizing some Arab kid in front of his mom would get us the info we needed.

We were lied to.

Most of the torture had nothing to do with obtaining information (and the information that was obtained was done by the non-violent style: good cop, bad cop, we're the good guys, don't you want to see your family again, etc). No, it was done to show these "Islamic terrorists" who was boss, to show the Arab nations just how awesomely evil we could be if we were ever fucked with again. And to be frank, some of it was some of the regular old incompetent evil.

We locked up Japanese citizens during World War II, and it took us about sixty years to apologize. So at least the time it takes us to apologize after committing a great evil has gone down. Unfortunately, we have to keep apologizing.

old comment by Yossarian Lives

If torture and unfair treatment of prisoners is part of what makes the USA awesome then I want to be the nerdy kid with no friends that disagrees. When I think of what makes the USA good never do I think of Guantanamo.

With the increasing likelihood of a public inquiry into allegations of torture by the UK, and the lobbying by the UK to blank out parts of this recent report by the US senate, ol' Paddy Scrivener should have enough material to keep him going for months.

@Sangfroid:

Even if the torture was related to obtaining information then it'd still be unjust and a damaging revelation. People are likely to open up to anything when tortured in order to prevent the agony, as was the case in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge where victims arrested for many spurious reasons confessed to being spies and saboteurs to stop the intense forms of torture which included waterboarding.

old comment by dionysus

You'd be shouting "we're awesome" if we nuked an orphanage and mass-drowned thousands of puppies all while punting babies into kindly old men and ladies (as long as Obama's not the one doing it). There's patriotism, there's nationalism, and then there's the kind of blind loyalty usually reserved for cults and the last one is the one I see you, Fox, and the Tea Party constantly demonstrate. I mostly like Obama, I vote Democrat, and I love my country. But I don't excuse the mistakes they've made or the times they've abused their power. Love is not giving carte blanche to do whatever the object of affection wants. It is recognizing flaws, accepting the more innocuous ones, and helping to fix the really bad ones. If your significant other couldn't stop gambling you wouldn't say "Oh well, s/he's still awesome!". No, you try to help them stop. And if the US is torturing people you should be prepared to make that behavior stop, too.

old comment by dionysus

@Insult to Rocks

We made a mistake. Every country does. We have to learn for this, and move on. Of course, we seem to be notoriously bad at that: the right wing pretends that the mistakes were not mistakes, the Democrats pretend the mistakes didn't exist, and the extreme left wing use any mistake as propaganda and demonization.

Our political discourse has effectively turned us into five year olds. Everything is black and white, concrete, good vs. evil, blame game, and we'd rather just ignore unpleasant things than face them. We care more about being entertained and winning arguments than doing the right thing. Note: I'm not applying this generalization to all of the people of the US but to our political discourse. There are no gray areas, there are only two sides to any debate, you're either with us or against us, and it is a personal offense to disagree or criticize. Worst of all, small groups have a disproportionate amount of influence on our politics. I'd blame TV pundits but then I'd be falling into the same trap. It's a symptom of a more complex issue but it's something that is already taking a toll on our ability to address other substantial issues. There is nothing that can't be boiled down into a bumper sticker and spewed ad nauseum and there's no argument that doesn't have a "winner" and a "loser".

old comment by Anon-e-moose

“But we’ve had this discussion. We’ve closed the book on it, and we’ve stopped doing it. And the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are. This administration wants to have this discussion to show us how we’re not awesome.”

Question:

image

What are your thoughts on the Taliban now? Do you support what ISIS are doing right now? Are you all for their brand of hyper-Sharia? If your answer is the only one possible, then the only ones showing how you're not awesome are yourselves.

No 9/11-esque Islameist attacks on, say... New Zealand. Therefore thank you for admitting that - from your point of view - New Zealand is 20% more awesome than America. /)^3^(\

Meanwhile, Obama re-establishes US diplomatic relations with Cuba; exchange of ambassadors, trade resumes (with billions flooding into that country's economy almost immediately). That's Awesomeness. Oh, and enjoy your now total isolation, Kim Jong-uh.

Moral: As I've said before, but bears repeating: Americentricism (also, American Exceptionalism): it'll be the death of you, one of these days. But only you right-wingers, that is. Otherwise, where is your fat white man in the White House right now, (and potentially for generations to come)?

Why isn't your country at least the right-wing utopia/Eternal Talibangelist Theocracy of Godsville right now, if your way of thinking is right, and always will be? You tell me.

Andrea Tantaros #fundie rawstory.com

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