(In a thread on Alcoholics Anonymous)
A.A. cofounder Bill Wilson "felt it would be unwise to have an allegiance to any one religious sect. He felt A.A.'s usefullness was worldwide, and contained spiritual principles that members of any and every religion could accept, including the Eastern religions."
Alcoholics Anonymous was created to prevent people from coming to Christ, and to water down the beliefs of Christians who are continually exposed to 12 Step theology in meeting after meeting.
All the well reasoned discussion points in defense of A.A. cannot change the fact that Christians are not to participate in this all-gods religion.
49 comments
Yes. Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult bent on the overthrow and destruction of Christianity.
That, or a non-religious organization focused on helping people of all faiths and backgrounds overcome a destructive addiction.
But then, what do I know....?
It's a Christian program. That's why it's illegal constition wise to court enforce it (done, regularly but unconstitional). It's Twelve-Steps resemble the Ten Commandments on at least three
Does this guy get anything?
Despite being a co-founder, Bill W later rejected AA himself, because it didn't work for him.
And AA is basically a Christian front group.
@louislois
"Yes. Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult bent on the overthrow and destruction of Christianity.
That, or a non-religious organization focused on helping people of all faiths and backgrounds overcome a destructive addiction.
But then, what do I know....?"
I'd suggest not much about AA. You've obviously never read chapter 4 of the "Big Book". It's nothing more than a tirade against the unbeliever. The AA are just as big a religious cult as RR, worse in fact: RR is upfront about their (ridiculous) beliefs and they don't pussyfoot around. AA isn't so honest or forthcoming. Do some research on the efficacy of AA compared to other treatments or therapies - AA has a higher failure rate and greater death rate and doing *nothing* is as good as, and in some cases better than, going to AA.
A religious cult from its inception.
You braindead motherfucker. Just because it accepts non-Christians doesn't mean it's anti-Christian. If it accepts Christians, that in fact DEBUNKS the claim that it's anti-Christian, you stupid piece of shit. That's probably the same reason you retarded cunts think that public school is evil. Protect your children from multiculturalism! Fuck you. Fuck you with a fucking rake.
Steps from the 12 step program that involve God:
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
You cant get more religious than this if you tried. Sure its not 100% christian, but then it helps more people this way.
(Although, given experience with my mother, all AA really does is replace an addiction to Alcohol with an addiction to Religion.)
I'm an atheist, and my dad has been involved in the program for two years now and has been clean and sober since he joined. I have no problem whatsoever with AA. Sure, the recidivism rate is high, but it depends on the person. Whatever helps a person get sobered up is just fine with me. Especially when you are close to the alcoholic.
I recovered from alcoholism without any help, just by sheer willpower. AA may help a lot of people, but the idea that I'm "diseased" just didn't sit well with me, let alone the christian aspect of it, or having to apologize to all the people I "harmed". Hell, most the people I were around at the time were drunk too. And those that weren't were the ones who drove me to drink in the first place. Besides, hunting down all those people, and all the other things they want you to do wastes precious time that could be spent honing job skills and otherwise making up for lost time.
Nope, all I had to do was decide for myself that I needed to change, and start making those changes. Not everyone has the willpower to do that, which is why I agree we need these programs, but I'll be damned if I'm going to sit in some drafty church basement every week and start every sentence with "I'm Lisa and I'm an alcoholic". I haven't been drunk in 17 years, and can even occasionally enjoy a beer or glass of wine without worrying about backsliding.
I though America was a republic. Where does this king come in? Are you trying to Balkanise the US?
Listen bone-brain, Christians are not required to become members of AA. But if they are alcoholic, then they would be well advised to seek and use the true and tried help it provides, and benefit from the support it give.
But you are too thick to see this. Go back to your bottle of hooch and when it empty, sleep it off.
Penn and Teller make good points, as does everyone here. AA is religious and ineffective. But if the placebo is working for somebody, that's a plus.
The poster's issues over the correctness of AA's spiritual views resembles arguing over the proper shade of pink of the IPU.
@ LDM - That's a brilliant story; thanks for sharing it.
Regardless of the differing opinions towards AA (cult versus totally useful), you have to admit that an atheist would be almost completely screwed in that program. They could only do five of the twelve steps (thanks Sylvana). On that basis alone, fundies should like it -_-
I guess Jesus doesn't like AA because he turned water into wine.
So what are all those alcoholic Christians supposed to do to get over their addiction? Oh yeah, True ChristiansTM don't drink and never have.
Really!?!?!! Because when my probation officer got pissed at me for drinking on my own time she had the court order me to the famous 90 meetings in 90 days AA program. It was religious conversionism, and when I treatened to sue the city for violating my First Amendment rights, they quickly offered me a week in jail instead. Guess which I choose.
I don't like AA because it takes the power away from the individual, without God you're a useless piece of shit. And Alcohol is an evil demon to be feared for the rest of your life, just the smell of alcohol from someone making sourdough bread (yes I had an AA person complain at a dinner because I made sourdough) is going to make you go on the binge of your life. Moderation is impossible
Yep, sounds like fundie Christianity to me. What, hate the competition?
"Alcoholics Anonymous was created to prevent people from coming to Christ"
Funny, I thought it was created to help alcoholics get off the piss?
AA... Sounds like exchanging one addiction for another.
Ok, if you want to keep on being an alcoholic all your life, it's your problem.
Alcoholism is a chronic condition, chump. What's your point?
Wow, some of my friends were ordered to take AA. Their biggest complaint was that AA forced them to pray, and if they didn't, they would 'fail' AA and go to jail.
Their thread is so baked.
"Anyways that is only one problem of it, another issue with A.A. is the fact
"AA members celebrate annual 'birthdays' based on the date of their last drink. They practice a 'secular regeneration'." [like a mock baptism!!]
"Is it ok that they 'found Sobriety' and end up in Hell? What was the point?"
"Sure I admit that some are indeed saved by the Lord through A.A. but at the same time some are saved by the Lord through Satanism also."
I went to a couple GA meetings, and I must have missed out on all the pagan sacrifices taking place. Now that I think about it, I did get there twenty minutes late...
Alcoholics Anonymous was created to prevent people from coming to Christ...
For once in your miserable, paranoid, delusional, pathetic existence(it will continue because there will be no Rapture) please provide a link/citation where you picked up this bullshit. Sounds like sour grapes to me. People go to the various addiction groups to meet and talk with others without the damn judgment BS. See? Your witnessing doesn't do crap so you guys are pissed a group of individuals actually find friends and hopefully peace of mind by meeting mostly in churches . You guys are so ignorant and pathetic and you're exactly the type of assholes that would slither into meetings and try to witness after you learn who is there. Plus, you would inform others outside of the group who was there. You are scum. You have saved no lives. AA, NA, SA, GA and others have. You have failed and will burn in hell you half-wit inbreds. Many religious and faithful people attend and/or lead these meetings and are on call 24/7 to help those who have a weak moment. I'm glad you're not one of these religious folks. Again..provide a link you chicken shit ass.
This type of stuff really raises my temper. Many people depend on these meetings. We have 2 employees that do and we always let them off (with pay) to do so. We paid for one to go to the Good Samaritan Rehab where biblical verses abound and that doesn't bother me one damn bit. I care for the person and this person's health and well-being and so far, so good. Damn those assclown invertebrates on RR. They cannot and will not back up any of their BS because they cannot save anybody. They give decent Christians who do good things because they want to and are not bothered to work along side a Pagan unlike those RR fools. FTR, I've worked and taught Jews and Muslims. No problem. Only those guys are nasty. Now I'm going to try and cool off.
Alcoholics Anonymous was created to prevent people from coming to Christ...All the well reasoned discussion points in defense of A.A. cannot change the fact that Christians are not to participate in this all-gods religion.
I think the main reason that people go to the meetings is so that they can share their experiences with others in the same situation and draw support and nourishment from each other without judgment. Everybody in those meetings is in basically the exact same spot and therefore has no real right to judge another attendee.
I have to say, I'm not happy with some of the comments in this thread, either. I don't know what 12-step meetings you guys have been going to, but I went to quite a number with my mother growing up and they are hardly tent-revivals. Actually, there were a fair number of non-believers who went to them--people who weren't necessarily bothered by the fact that the word "God" was mentioned in the steps a couple of times. The impression I got was that "God" could be anything you wanted it to be: the Christian God, some other God, or even yourself. Whatever. It's just that something was moving you to want to change your life.
"Higher Power" can mean anything. It very often does too! I've heard "Higher Power" be addressed as Goddess, God, Aliens, or a passed on friend. One person's "Higher Power" was a beloved pet who was a sole support system. Serving Our King is talking through his ass, and so are many others.
AA can be religious, but the question is what religion is it? AA comes in different flavors, very often it reflects the 'tastes' and the attitudes of the attendees.
So tell me Serving, what is the efficacy rate of curing alcoholism by becoming a True Christian(tm)? Please provide evidence in the form of a controlled study. Here's a guess, it will probably resemble the rate at which born again Christians are "cured" of homosexuality.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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