Garvan Elison #fundie

Garvan Elison #fundie garvanellison.blogspot.com

Evolution of WOOD
Can an evolutionist please explain to me how and why WOOD evolved????

FACT: Plants are made of leaves and stems and do not contain any wood.

Evolutionists claim that trees did not evolve for 15 million years after the first plants appeared.

So why did it take so long for wood to evolve why plants would have benefited from having a height advantage over their competitors from the moment they first appeared???

109 comments

old comment by Deep Search

From Wikipedia:
The early Devonian landscape was devoid of vegetation taller than waist height. Without the evolution of a robust vascular system, taller heights could not be attained. There was, however, a constant evolutionary pressure to attain greater height. The most obvious advantage is the harvesting of more sunlight for photosynthesis by overshadowing competitors but a further advantage is present in spore distribution, as spores (and, later, seeds) can be blown greater distances if they start higher. This may be demonstrated by Prototaxites, thought to be a late Silurian fungus reaching eight metres in height.[53]

To attain arborescence, early plants had to develop woody tissue that provided support and water transport. To understand wood, we must know a little of vascular behaviour. The stele of plants undergoing "secondary growth" is surrounded by the vascular cambium, a ring of cells which produces more xylem (on the inside) and phloem (on the outside). Since xylem cells comprise dead, lignified tissue, subsequent rings of xylem are added to those already present, forming wood.

OMG THAT WAS HARD. ALSO: LOL wood...

old comment by Anon-e-moose

Humans (Homo Sapiens) have 46 chromosomes. One of the earlies plants, the fern - specifically Ophioglossum reticulatum - has 1260 chromosomes.

So how could something - that appeared before trees with woody tissue, never mind humans - benefit so much from having a genetic advantage over their competitors from the momemt they appeared hundreds of millions of years ago?

The Giant Sequoia has just 66 chromosomes. Your call, Garv.

--EDIT--

@Da Product

"inb4 identifying wood"

image

The... Larch. [/Monty Python] X3

Apparently Garv here can't tell the difference between Deciduous and Evergreen. Basic biology class stuff. Bamboo is used widely in the Far East as scaffolding (amongst thousands of other uses), with a tensile strength higher than steel. PROTIP: Bamboo is a species of grass, Garv m'boy.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Yownanymous

"No-one's made a penis joke yet. I am disappoint."

Ask, and yew shall receive:

image

I thought 'Got Wood' was someone obtaining combustible fuel, until I discovered Smirnoff.

http://forum.weebls-stuff.com/archive/index.php/t-18430.html

...oh, and never mind 'Son I am disappoint', I invented the 'ReiTree' meme in 4chan's /a/:

image

Some moss took a lichen to ReiTree.

ReiTree's best friend was a mushroom. He was a fungi to be with.

ReiTree had a dog, but she got rid of it. It kept her up all night with it's bark

Q: What is ReiTree's favourite recording artist?

A: Woody Guthrie.

Compared to ReiTree, I've always thought Shinji was a bit of a sap.

ReiTree gives me wood.

Yesterday I was having sex with ReiTree, but she told me to withdraw my woody. She was becoming saw.

ReiTree's vagina is pretty dry, but it felt just pine

She should make like a tree and leaf.

Her acting in NGE was rather wooden.

What if Rei was a lumberjack? She could use my chopper, if you know what I mean.

She was the reason why the series was axed.

In terms of sex, ReiTree provides instant grassification.

ReiTree has a sponsorship deal with FlyMoe electric lawn tools.

Rei belongs to NERV. A grass-roots organisation.

...I'll get my coat.

Gendo Ikari: 'Rei Ayanami puns? In MY FSTDT?! The NERV of those people! Will we EVA hear the last of them?!'

image

*gets up & starts to leaf*

...I'll get my coat.'

old comment by

The phrasing of your last question betrays the lie in your first, Garvan. You know damn well why wood evolved. And probably have a rudimentary understanding of how. I'd imagine you also realise that the advantage conferred by height would not have been as great during the early evolution of plant life, at least not enough to make expending energy on forming truly woody stems a worthwhile endeavour.

I have a question for you Garvan: if the Earth is young and special creation is true, why do you and others like you need to lie in order to persuade your followers you are right? Why does it require wilful ignorance and cognitive dissonance to maintain a belief in the Genesis account?

old comment by John

He's probably just doing a crude, misunderstood rewrite of something put out by the ICR in response to a recent announcement of the discovery of a 400 million year old wood fossil (15 million years older than the oldest known tree), suggesting it was for improved water transport rather than structural support. The ICR article made a bit more sense, but still contained silly gems like "In the real world, problems never produce their own solutions. Rather, solutions are always purposefully engineered by intelligent problem-solvers." I guess the engineers at DuPont went into the DNA of bacteria in their holding ponds and changed it to digest nylon chemicals ...

old comment by

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.

The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.

There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

old comment by dionysus

@His4Life

Before the Fall, if Adam and Eve got around to procreating, they would have done so without an erection

Err, how? It'd be hard as fuck (puns DEFINITELY not intended) getting the damn thing inside. Since you're not a man you clearly have no idea how difficult it is getting a flaccid penis inside of a vagina (I tried to go in for seconds way too soon).

and without pleasure.

1) That must have absolutely sucked (damn, I'm seriously not trying to use these puns).
2) Then why the hell are there so many nerve ending there? And why do other animals also feel pleasure during sex?

But now procreation has been corrupted, and people even perform the action with no intent of making babies. But the deed is always sinful which is why we need Jesus.

Fundamentalist Christianity in a nutshell: "somewhere, someone is having fun and I don't like it". Preventing pleasure is a disturbingly strong obsession for fundies, it's like your only goal in life is to make life miserable for everyone.

old comment by Jezebel's Evil Sister

"The origin of the erection is in Original Sin. Before the Fall, if Adam and Eve got around to procreating, they would have done so without an erection and without pleasure. But now procreation has been corrupted, and people even perform the action with no intent of making babies. But the deed is always sinful which is why we need Jesus."

Dang! When I read the above, I laughed like hell, and I didn't even notice that this was from his4life until I saw the response that followed. I just thought it was a really good parody of a mind-fucked fundy posted by one of our regular smart-ass FSTDTers.

Could it be that his4life is actually a POE, rather than just a troll? Or, could it be that one of our fellow smart asses actually posted under her name?

Whatever, it's still ridiculous ... and therefore amusing.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Troll4Life

"@The Jamo

The origin of the erection is in Original Sin"

image

Or mayhaps the ultimate in Penis Envy, methinks. Goddy here couldn't take the thought of erections greater than his own:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=62318&Page=6

Thus his having a tammy-huff over the Tower of Babel malarkey. Seems that not only do the hundreds of millions of Iron Chariots we have today mean he's too shit-scared to show his face round here (Judges 1:19, and all that jazz; as Kryptonite is to Superman, Iron is to God, eh?! It's stealth material to him too, as the Bible itself proves), the likes of Canary Wharf & St. Mary Axe (the 'Gherkin') in London, Tokyo Tower in Japan, Willis Tower in Chicago, Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Taipei 101 in Taiwan, and Burj Khalifa in Dubai - and the fact they're still allowed to stand (so much for his 'omnipotence') - are giving him terminal winkie shrinkage, thus lessening his 'omnipotent' God-powers*! >:D

@dionysus

"Fundamentalist Christianity in a nutshell: "somewhere, someone is having fun and I don't like it". Preventing pleasure is a disturbingly strong obsession for fundies, it's like your only goal in life is to make life miserable for everyone."

(emphasis added):

'Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business.'

-Jesse Ventura (ex-politician, ex-actor, ex-wrestler, and ex-Navy SEAL.)

Do you have the cojones to say to his face he's wrong, Troll4Life? To do so, video recording proceedings & posting such on YouTube as proof?

...thought not.

@The Jamo

It really is all about matters below the waist with these fundies! They're obsessed! See how Troll4Life creates drama by taking your off the cuff joke out of context?

...I trust you'll remember that, next time you accuse we Atheists of 'taking Scripture passages out of context', eh Troll4Life? Remember, dearie: if the Bible isn't the literal 'Word of God throughout, cover to cover, then it's impossible for us to 'take out of context' anything the Bible states. Which kinda fucks up the whole concept of the Bible being the 'Word of God', if it isn't literal throughout, word-for-word, letter-for-letter. Either it is 100% literal, or it's 100% fictional. It can't be both.

Enjoy your paradox (and thus the Bible's 100% fictional bullshittery throughout, cover to cover), dearie.

...oh, and speaking of 'context':

@Troll4Life

"But the deed is always sinful which is why we need Jesus."

A Holy menage a trois?

'Kinky...!'

-Hedy... er, I mean Hedley Lamarr (Harvey Korman), "Blazing Saddles"

image

Not only do some Americans have no concept of Irony, they've never heard of the Gratuitous Double-Entendre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finbarr_Saunders

...otherwise Warner Bros. would have named that orca film anything other than "Free Willy", lest it generate the titters & chortles it did here in the UK (and that was before the Michael Jackson connection!). X3

*- Where's Goku when you need him?! >:D

old comment by Anon-e-moose

@Troll4Life

image

Whilst the original Tsutenkaku (1912) in Osaka was built along the lines of the Eiffel Tower (which was what inspired the architects of the Tokyo Tower), it's said that the construction of such was after the Japanese architects visited Britain and were inspired by seeing the Blackpool Tower (they were originally thinking of using wood & bamboo for such an erection, but saw the advantages of metal).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ts%C5%ABtenkaku

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackpool_Tower*

PROTIP: 'Tsutenkaku' means 'Tower to Heaven'.

"I don't know who is impersonating me here."

Yeah. As if we've never heard that one before (and after the fact). [/hyper-sarcasm] 'Boy Who Cried Wolf', much dearie? Careful, your Poe is showing.

(*presses Tannoy microphone button*)

Paging Distind. Distind, please go to Admin Room 1, as an IP trace is required.

"Their position is not Biblical"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finbarr_Saunders

See what I mean about Gratuitous Double-Entendres, eh SpukiKitty?! They're obsessed! So I guess the only Biblical position is the 'Menage a trois Sandwich' with Jesus on bottom eh, dearie?! >:D

How about 'Conceptual Sex in the Mercenary Position'? Job was certainly willing to whore out his own daughters! Then the little matter of that Holy Ghost (one part of God himself, don't forget!) banging that bit of underage briffit Mary, and leaving his Holy Load in her - when her husband Joseph hadn't even touched her himself. So much for the 7th Commandment eh, dearie? Your so-called 'God' certainly obeys his own rules, doesn't he?! [/mega-sarcasm]

Frankly, we Atheists have more than infinitely superior sexual mores & morals than your 'God', Troll4Life. Proof? Via the example of Job, 'God' sees nothing wrong in underage sex. And as for poor Mary, 'God' himself is nothing less than a child-raping paedophile slimebag nonce. No 'context' required.

*- 'In 1998 a "Walk of Faith" glass floor panel was opened at the top of the tower'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A335L3JLRK0

I've stood on that, when I visited Blackpool several years ago. Science destroys 'Faith'. Every time.

old comment by Anon-e-moose

#1324170
His4Life

"@The Jamo

The origin of the erection is in Original Sin. Before the Fall, if Adam and Eve got around to procreating, they would have done so without an erection and without pleasure. But now procreation has been corrupted, and people even perform the action with no intent of making babies. But the deed is always sinful which is why we need Jesus."

#1324468
His4Life

"That previous remark about erections did not come from me. I don't know who is impersonating me here."

Ahem...:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=74017&Page=3

#1171580
His4Life

"I can't believe the blasphemy of the title of htis post. Unbelieveable and disgusting. Enjoy having a demon's finger up your butt for eternity, bitch"

#1171749
His4Life

"That wasn't from me. Someone is hijacking my name. But it isn't too far from the truth, and you are a bitch."

Distind

"As a note,
http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=74017&Page=3[b]#1171580
and
http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=74017&Page=3[b]#1171749
Come from the same computer."

Fool us once, you break the 9th Commandment and Go to Hell.

Fool us twice, you break the 9th Commandment and go to Hell.

I'm afraid this is where you've gone beyond mere trolling, and have proven yourself to be as dedicated as Garvan is, now Poe4Life.

Therefore in perpetuity, anything you say from now on has less than zero credibility. But then way before now...:

http://www.fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=67911&Page=3

did Giveitaday prove that anything you said had less credibility, you pathological liar.

(And see what I mean, SpukiKitty, re. Double Entendres on the following page? I mean - 'Higgs Bosom'? That's can't even be classed as a deliberate Freudian Slip!)

Even commenter #1066713 on that page saw right through your facade, Poe4Life. Thus, it can be finally said of you - without fear of contradiction - dearie...:

image

Your failure is now complete.

Oh, no doubt that, before long, you'll return in the not too distant future with extremely selective amnesia, trying to make us believe that we've forgotten about your prior BS & thread/argument abandonment issues, and continue as before, as if nothing had happened; certainly your previous drama via previous appearances here. But as you can see above, FSTDT's server has a long memory, as do we who comment here.

It never pays to try and get one over on we Atheists, Poe4Life. Blinded by 'faith' you may be (or not; just a Garvan-like dedicated Poe, who in reality is as religious as Richard Dawkins), but you'll never pull the wool over the eyes of Atheists. Whose vision is illuminated by the bright light of Facts.

We win. Every time.

old comment by

There is no advantage to be much, much higher than everything else, stupid. The wind would cut you down quickly. There might be an advantage to be a little bit higher than your competitors, but still have the protection of their stems against the wind, for most of your height. That is why it took 15 million years, or whatever, to get the very, very high trees that we have today; they needed very high trees to support them.

To my knowledge trees are large plants, made of leaves and stems.

English isn't my first language, but isn't wood (used in the singular) the raw product you get when you cut down trees? If he meant large collections of trees, shouldn't he have said "Evolution of WOODS" (using the plural)?

old comment by Kanna

I'll take a stab at it. Wood evolved the same way that anything else did. Some accidental mutation caused (1) to happen to change (A), which gave (A) some advantage in (2). That meant that (A) passed on its altered genes, so we will now call it (B). Repeat as many times as you like....

(A) in this case is a plant. It could be an animal, an insect, a bacterium... Take your pick. It all works the same way.
(B) in this case is a "better" organism. It's a little bit different from (A).
(1) in this case is stronger cell walls with lots of lignin and other stuff. (IANA forestry major) We call that wood. It could be anything at all that changes the organism.
(2) in this case would be height, and since plants grow well in sunshine you can see that would be an advantage. It could be size (to compete), or attractive feathers to get a mate, or a shorter breeding cycle or stronger or smarter offspring or light sensitivity to avoid predators ...or any of a zillion little improvements to tweak the population

Note that it all starts with an accident. That isn't completely random, because physics and chemistry are not random. But it means that some things evolve one way and some evolve a different way. They don't have a goal.

Garvan Elison #fundie garvanellison.blogspot.com

109 comments

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