In any case, if the average man on the street is innocent and undeserving of God's harsh judgment, then the gospel is unnecessary for most people. But Scripture teaches that everyone has sinned against God and transgressed his laws, so that everyone deserves death and destruction. Once we affirm this, then there is no reason to be shocked when God pours out his wrath upon a group of people, even killing thousands of them all at once. Rather, it is to be expected.
[...]
God has always judged sinners through natural and "man-made" disasters, killing thousands of them at a time. This is wholly consistent with his holy and just nature. There is no problem with this other than the fact that many people do not want to believe the truth about God and about themselves. In denying that God is the God of disasters, they assure people that he can be ignored and even mocked with impunity. But this universe is not a democracy, and you cannot democratize or Americanize the kingdom of heaven. You have no rights that would require God to treat you a certain way. With God there is no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought – if you believe the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, or even think the wrong thing, God will take it into account and punish you for it, that is, unless you have been saved from his wrath through Jesus Christ.
"This makes God a tyrant," you say. But is God unrighteous unless he conforms to your political theory? This objection itself is evidence of human depravity, and shows that mankind deserves the harshest possible divine punishments. And who says that God cannot be a tyrant? The first definition of a tyrant does not carry the negative connotations often associated with the word, but it is simply "an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution" (Merriam-Webster ). No sinful man deserves so much power, but the true God can have no less.
65 comments
"All the bad shit is God - whether it is the acts of man, beast, or freak chance, - except when I don't want it to be His doing. Then it's all your fault."
Right, got the message.
I don't know why you take pleasure in imagining that you're subject to a cruel and omnipotent dictator, but, luckily for you and all of us, it exists only in your imagination.
Cheers.
With God there is no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought
So that whole "free will" thing is just a bunch of gobbledygook then?
Also, this God sounds more like the God of Saudi Arabia, because he certainly doesn't seem very compatible with the American constitution.
So in essence, God is the player of our game of The Sims, killing us whenever he gets bored?
Makes an odd amount of sense. Still not going to get me to worship a God like that, even if he did exist.
In the Book of Genesis, God listens to Abraham's objections over the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, promising he would not destroy the cities if there were five righteous people there. Vincent Cheung's god makes the god of Genesis look like a kitten.
So the only reason you should worship God is because he's a cruel, genocidal dictator.
Yeah that's not a good reason.
I wonder if he'd be so cold-blooded about it if, say, an earthquake struck tomorrow, destroying his house and killing all his family and loved ones.
I wonder what this person's sexual life is like. Yeah I went there.
I love the name of this site...Invincible Faith. More like invisible.
Fuck you, fuck your little jesus character & fuck your silly little god. Grow up.
I don't know what's worse, the POS god you describe or the POSs worshipping it.
Oh wait, I do know.
The POS worshippers are worse, because they actually exist.
"God has always judged sinners through natural and "man-made" disasters, killing thousands of them at a time."
Funny how god keeps hitting fundie churches with tornados. Either he has really bad aim, or fundies keep missing gods message.
"God has always judged sinners through natural and "man-made" disasters, killing thousands of them at a time."
So what's with the COMPLETE lack of natural disasters in atheistic Britain?
"But is God unrighteous unless he conforms to your political theory?"
No, God (assuming he even exists) is an unrighteous tyrant because he allows horrible diseases and injuries, even in children. He allows wars. He allows the powerful to victimize the powerless. And, then he sends most people's souls to eternal torture. Your God, sir, is an a$$hole.
"This objection itself is evidence of human depravity...."
What? You question the validity and sanity of our bullshit? You're depraved!
Also, your God is a little boy with a magnifying glass, burning ants. Not worthy of respect.
Also, Weather and Plate Tectonics: HOW DO IT WORK?
"the gospel is unnecessary for most people"
By jove, I think he's got it!
"But Scripture teaches that everyone has sinned against God and transgressed his laws, so that everyone deserves death and destruction."
Oh. OK, never mind.
"You have no rights that would require God to treat you a certain way."
Good job he's not real, eh?
...if you believe the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, or even think the wrong thing, God will take it into account and punish you for it, that is, unless you have been saved from his wrath through Jesus Christ.
So, he believes that anybody who is NOT a Christian is subject to random culling by natural disaster, okay, not an uncommon fundie belief... but what of the Christians who have been "saved from his wrath through Jesus Christ" yet are still killed in these random circumstances?
Would this guy seriously claim that no Christian has ever suffered an untimely death, or even that No True Christian has? Because that is just blatantly absurd.
Piss off. I want people to be free of tyrants, whether it be in Heavan, Hell, congress, or the White House.
Is there any info on this Cheung guy? "Invincible Faith" seems to consist of a PDF document & I don't want to read through it for the sake of my sanity.
I love how ol' Vinnie uses the word "Invincible" in his title, considering his name is Vince.
In-VINCE-ible
Methinks Vinnie Wang-Cheung thinks HE'S Godde & HATES EVERYBODY!
If there's any other info on Vinnie-The-Freak, I'd love to know. Does he have a ministry? Is he in a mental ward? Does he live in his parent's basement?
Oh, heck. I'll Google his name...
UPDATE: Oh GOOD GRAVY! He's a well-established pastor who's written a lot of books. I'm going to vomit, now.
@Crimson Ghost: Actually, "Invincible Faith" is the name of the treatise. The site is just something along the lines of "Vincent Cheung's Website".
Meanwhile, I left out the following paragraph when I submitted it:
Some professing Christians resist the biblical doctrine of divine sovereignty with this objection, that it makes God a tyrant. The implication is that, either they refuse to have a God who is "an absolute ruler," or they take it for granted that a God who uses his absolute power in a way that displeases them has abused his power. Either way, their reaction makes them rebels against the Most High rather than his submissive children. The more urgent problem is therefore not whether God is appropriately called a tyrant, but whether these people are Christians at all. If they are true Christians that are merely confused, then let them make the correction at once.
Yes, this is No True Scotsman at work. But the part that I really thought marked Cheung as hyper-fundamentalist (like his comment earlier submitted about it being good that evil exists because God decreed it so wasn't enough) was at the very end of what I did submit--that God could effectively only BE God and worthy of worship if he was an absolute tyrant, answerable to none, not even to a philosophy.
@SpukiKitty et al.: This was the site's first main introduction to him: http://fstdt.net/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=80865
Mr. Cheung (because you are not worthy of being called 'Pastor', 'Doctor' or 'Reverend'), your God is the REAL Devil!
I refuse to follow your wicked Demiurge.
So, bereft of anything persuasive, you angrily resort to threats of violence. What happens to Christianity when your frustrated ravings fail even more dismally than the previous lies and deception?
Answer: Christianity becomes even less relevant to humans than before, if that's at all possible.
if the average man on the street is innocent and undeserving of God's harsh judgment, then the gospel is unnecessary for most people.
Exactly. So put it away.
there is no reason to be shocked when God pours out his wrath upon a group of people, even killing thousands of them all at once.
Sure there is. Because there's no discernible connection between his "wrath" and anything we do. Explain why he spared the French Quarter where the gay pride parades happen and destroyed at least nine Baptist churches in New Orleans? Or if he didn't do that, why didn't he stop it?
"With God there is no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought if you believe the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, or even think the wrong thing, God will take it into account and punish you for it..."
image
"But Scripture teaches that everyone has sinned against God and transgressed his laws, so that everyone deserves death and destruction"
You're speaking s if the bible were known to possess some inherent authority--why?
God has always judged sinners through natural and "man-made" disasters, killing thousands of them at a time.
Well then, if we tally up the droughts, tornados, earthquakes, collapsed bridges, storms, train wrecks, plane crashes, etc. in the USA alone, God must be pretty pissed at his most devoted fundamentalist followers.
Maybe because most of them are hypocritical, hateful bigots?
Could be.
"With God there is no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought if you believe the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, or even think the wrong thing, God will take it into account and punish you for it, that is, unless you have been saved from his wrath through Jesus Christ."
This is a nutshell is why this particular deity concept is ridiculous and makes it a total asshole from the start.
'"This makes God a tyrant" you say.'
Nope, "This makes your god a myth, and you a fucking idiot" is what I say.
Well, just tell me the following, why did he bother to send his son to say that those guys who died in the destruction of the Temple were not guilty of anything?, or why he tormented Job, for that matter?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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