[Transition is more than purely aesthetic. You are arguing against known psychological data. Transition is the recommended treatment for Gender Dysphoria.]
Why? Why not accept their bodies and find peace within themselves, just like other dysphoria (i.e. eating disorders)? They know deep inside that they're living a lie when it comes to their outward appearance.
26 comments
For me it gave me the ability to have children of my own, when before I had none, cosmetics right?
The name dysphoria is simply indicative of disorder, you`re comparing apples to transistors. Also, I was fat half a decade ago, now I`m 60something kilos, which one of the weights is me lying?
While I agree that fixing the parts of the brain that cause gender dysphoria might be a better treatment option, and should at least be looked into, we're not there yet. Transition is the best we have.
@Nemo
Only this is not possible without rewriting the person`s entire pprogram and thus actually one of the ethically worst crimes one can do to a sapient individual in my belief.
If anything in some highly theoretical scenario brain-body swaps could work best but then we`re talking some cartoon stuff.
Why not? For the same reason that people with pneumonia or a broken leg seek medical help. For the same reason that overweight people try to lose weight, or immigrants study a new language for their new country. For the same reason that ANYBODY tries to live a better life in some way. Don't be an ass.
@Nemo and Skide
The whole discussion you two are having is for naught because brains do not function like computers. There are no "parts" in which "gender" is stored as an information and no program that could be rewritten. Damn the computer metaphor, so wrong and yet so hard to overcome at the same time.
https://deref-web-02.de/mail/client/IMfEAexHsQc/dereferrer/?redirectUrl=https%3A%2F%2Faeon.co%2Fessays%2Fyour-brain-does-not-process-information-and-it-is-not-a-computer
Because of the uniqueness of each brain it is impossible to make directed changes to someones personality. Using drugs to induce random changes on the other hand can lead to disastrous results and is amoral. If someone has an eating disorder and wants to change that no one would suggest changing his personality to eradicate it because that's a) amoral and b) impossible. We would suggest altering his environment (the reasons for why he has developed the disorder) instead. So why should we try "reprograming" with gender dysphoria instead of changing the environmental factors that make someone unhappy, e.g. his/her bodies sex? THAT we can change (and we are getting better at it even!).
'Accept[ing] their bodies and find[ing] peace within themselves' goes out of the window once people are blowing their heads off with shotguns or risking painful deaths by cutting off their own hated genitalia.
Nobody's facing more potential ridicule and humiliation than a square-jawed balding former macho man who's putting on make-up and a dress and wishing to be known as Samantha. What drives these people is unimaginable to me, but the fact that they are willing enough to go through with it over years and even decades is enough to prove to even someone like myself that the condition is real and not a cultural thing or a privilege thing or a figment of the transsexual's imagination.
Transition is more than purely aesthetic, and I can prove it by pointing out that not all trans people want surgery. Quite a few are happy being androgynous with hormone treatments, which can cause some small physiological changes but leaves the old genitalia intact.
And that ought to be the point of treating gender dysphoria-- do what makes the patient happy, even if it doesn't necessarily line up with what society expects. Forcing your beliefs about transsexuality on a trans person is wrong no matter what.
@ChrisBP747
They really are but of course they aren`t comparable to the machines we use ourselves, if you thought I was advocating that, by no means.
I use the terms but lets be honest it`s way more complicated than that if you want to get technical.
My response was to the theoretical idea he threw.
@Skide
Sorry, I didn't want to attack you with it, it's just a pet peeve of mine and I wanted to clarify that. But I want to say it again: The computer analogy fails at a fundamental level. It's not that brains are just very complicated supercomputers, they just don't work like computers at all. In my opinion giving this metaphor too much credit leads to such unhealthy ideas like "What if we could just erase mental illnesses or other things that society sees as not normal?" and the like. As I said, I suggest reading the article, very interesting stuff.
"They know deep inside that they're living a lie when it comes to their outward appearance."
Yes. That's why a lot of trans people go through medical and legal transistion. So our outsides, and paper work, match our insides. And eating disorders are the result of body *dysmorphia*, not dysphoria, or peer pressure.
But that's not what you meant, is it?
Also, I wish people would realize gender is not only a social construct, but also on a spectrum, with many people not being fully male or female and tending to fall somewhere in between.
@ChrisBP747
Didn`t take it as such and you`re right, it kind of never occured to me somebody could use it that way.
The link sadly crashes on me but despite the way I like to communicate, as a bioinformatics student I`m far from ignorant on at least the basics of how we function(far be it from me to claim anything more, my studies and generally a lot of my life projects had to be put on hold last year due to the critical situation in my country, nothing like when the life you`ve just managed to build crumbles down because some fascists decided they had enough progress and empathy for one century and now we have to get out of here, preferably before they start reopening the deathcamps).
Why?
Seriously, what difference could this make to you? People have been modifying their own bodies - and each others' - since the dawn of time. If it isn't hurting anyone, then it doesn't involve you.
@ Skide - if you're in mortal danger wherever you are, grab your family and leave. As in, let me know and I'll give my email and we could possibly sponsor you as refugees.
If you live in the US, however, don't bother coming here: Our country is among the first yours will try to fuck up.
@Skide
I'm very sorry to hear that :( It is kind of sad that I have to ask (because that description fits quite a few countries at the moment) but from which country do you come from? would love to help you if I can, but my ressources as a biology student are rather limited. If there is something I can do for you from here (I'm from Germany, Münster to be exact) you can always tell me.
Why not accept your body as it is instead of getting lasik to fix your eyes?
Why not? BECAUSE YOU DON'T FUCKING HAVE TO THANKS TO MODERN MEDICAL SCIENCE, YOU DENSE LITTLE TOAD.
@ChrisBP747 , Psycho Tits
Poland. It`s getting worse and worse by the week and so far we`re in the middle of the process to get our passports updated, I`m fighting to get my degree papers changed under my(for quite a few years now) legal name and to be honest every friendly gesture is greatly appreciated. So far they hadn`t made any pogroms on their own citizens yet(other national folk are already targeted on mass scale and with complete lack of police interference) but if you get any news from PL you`ll see it`s only a matter of time.
Our original goal is Canada since they`ve opened their doors to polish people as refugees as of late(for any of you canadians out there, you`ve got our deepest gratitude and so does your government, if you`ll let us, we will prove ourselves to be the most productive and empathic examples of naturalised citizens you could expect.) but since the last 2 months we might have to make a run for the western border with but our baggage yet and we`ve got our most basic stuff always on hand. I`m not the one to start panicking without reason but if things start cascading over here some help will definitely be welcome.
Anyway in case, because at this point I can really not be sure about the next month [deleted since you asked] is my contact if things around here get terminal, so to speak.
Thank you very much for your extended hands!
@ Skide:
Canada here.
fiverthedybbuk@hotmail.com
Can you speak of why they might target you? If not, don't worry. Get your passports ready. My husband is already on-board. We just need a plan. We have one bedroom for however many of you there are, and enough to eat.
ETA: I appreciate the gesture, but please consider removing your real names from that post. Send them this way, please, and I'll return with my phone number.
As you likely know, take all impirtant documents, anything sentimental you can carry - you guys can get new clothes here - and bring any medical data. Maybe we could work through our embassy there: http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/poland-pologne/index.aspx?lang=eng
This way, you know we're legit and vice versa.
In terms of travel costs, I have no idea how that works...the embassy, or there are refugee welcome groups that might help. I guess if worse came to worse we'll scrape together enough to put you on the plane.
Skide, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. Major props to you Psycho Tits.
I know that progress is something that always has enemies, but I honestly can't fathom why people would choose fascism after knowing freedom. The ignorance and denial side I can see, but then you have people who are proud to be Nazis or some other kind of fascist. Fascism is inefficient. Fascism is deadly. Fascism is fear. Fascism often aids in the destruction of itself, as its tendency to burn everything to the ground also tends to destroy the protections holding it and its support in place. Fascism just plain sucks.
And now myself and the people of America have to fight off our own fascistic incursion... Yikes!
@Skide
Jeez, I didn't realize things were bad enough to warrant calling people refugees. I'm afraid I can't provide anything but my sympathy, for whatever that's worth.
I'm not a sociologist or anything, but from what I can tell people support fascism because they assume they'll be the ones in charge, because of deeply ingrained prejudices, or because someone charismatic who actually would be in charge has convinced them that fascism is a good idea, or any combination.
Not helped by that deadly problem humans seem to have where they simply cannot learn from past mistakes.
@Psycho Tits
Just sent you mail from my side, hope it has better luck, if anything there`s also hubbs mail but we`ll get to that if we need it.
Going through the embassy is our plan as soon as all the papers are in our hands.
As to why would they target us... We`re everything they want to get rid of, they demand catholic Poland with no "outside influences" and no resistance to the church doctrine, they believe we need to be dealt with since we corrupt their "Jesus of Nations"(no shit, that`s what they call themselves now). I`m a woman born intersex with legal trans experience, we`re both open atheists, socialists by political belief and if you look at the actual quotes our government officials are saying, they officialy consider us traitors, terrorists, criminals and for-some-fucking-reason communist agents(which I suppose would make us chinese? I assure you neither of our families ever been to far east). We`re both known opposition supporters and they`re just getting to the point where they start dealing with this sort of thing.
Really, big huggs to you folks and happy new year`s!
ps. @Salami:
The Polish fundies are really scary. My guess is that their idea of church doctrine isn't even remotely Christian in anything but a superficial sense either. But happy new year to you too-- I hope next year is at least brighter than its been this year.
As an aspiring scientist, the rise of fascism worries me greatly as well. There's not much fascists hate more than science that doesn't fit their ideas, not to mention that massive ethical violations fascists tend to incur with their idea of science. While America is still in the uncertain phase of the Trump administration, being anti-science or at the very least ignorant about science seems to be a job requirement for Trump's government so far. A resistance is mounting (and I suspect China and the CIA are going to be huge players in the next four years of US politics), and I intend on partaking with what little power I hold when given the opportunity, but sometimes I fear that it will only do so much.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
To post a comment, you'll need to Sign in or Register . Making an account also allows you to claim credit for submitting quotes, and to vote on quotes and comments. You don't even need to give us your email address.
