Ray Comfort #fundie

Ray Comfort #fundie facebook.com

I offered to make Aaron (nice Bible name) lunch, if he ever visits the ministry. While he's eating I would like to ask him a few questions about the evolution of the chicken (or whatever it was before it fully evolved).

When did it evolve eyes, and up until that time, how did it see?
When did it evolve lungs?
Did it breath before it had lungs?
If it didn't, why did the lungs evolve if it was doing just fine?
When did air evolve with the right mixture of oxygen to sustain its life?
When did the brain evolve so that it could think, and therefore eat food to sustain its life?
When, how, and why did the food that it ate evolve?
When did it get an instinct to drink water?
When and why did water evolve?

The same questions apply for the pre-rooster. Did it evolve into a bird around the same time as the hen? Why did it involve? Did the process take millions of years? How did the creature reproduce in the meantime? How long was its lifespan if the process took millions of years?

There are a few other questions about which evolved first--its heart, blood, or blood vessels. How did the heart work if there was no blood or blood vessels?

I'm sure Aaron, like most believes in Darwinian evolution, will say that questions show that I don't understand evolution. That would be true. Nobody does.

54 comments

old comment by Nemo

- Chickens did not evolve eyes. No amniotic organism did. Rather, eyes were a development that occured in the ocean, long before any sort of bird. Since eyes are a useful feature, they were kept by most of the organisms which evolved from the first community that had them.
- I can't be bothered to look this up solely to post it on a site where Ray would never see it, especially since he has no interest, but I'm fairly certain that this is known.
- Yes. Numerous organisms take in oxygen without having lungs.
- Natural selection.
- Are you getting your knowledge of evolution from Kent Hovind again? Air is not subject to any of the selection pressures that drive evolution. To answer your question though, when cyanobacteria began producing oxygen.
- Numerous animals eat food without engaging in metacognition, Ray. And I can't be bothered to look it up for the reason I gave above, but I'm pretty sure this is known.
- It ate stuff that already existed, like everything does, and it evolved to handle the food that already existed. Natural selection. Same reason everything reproduces imperfectly. There is no why.
- Natural selection.
- See above. Water is not subject to evolution. The nature of water doesn't even change, so Kent Hovind's bullshit is too stupid for Ray here. Well done.

What are you talking about? Both the hen and the rooster evolved from a community of birds that was very much like modern chickens but with minor differences. Individuals don't evolve, communities do, and if you were to view every single generation next to each other, it would be impossible to draw a line of demarcation to say "this is where the change in "kinds" takes place".

I'm sure that these questions are known by people who study biology in depth, but a layperson wouldn't know them. That's what Ray is counting on, and it's why he never discusses science with scientists unless he can edit the footage.

old comment by Me

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There are a few other questions about which evolved first--its heart, blood, or blood vessels. How did the heart work if there was no blood or blood vessels?
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Blood cam first -- in a small, multi-celluar creature, the fluid that exists between cells is a blood precursor.

Blood vessels came next -- as the organism gets larger, fixed channels to carry the blood precursor ensures that all cells get a chance to receive and release chemicals. The fluid is driven in the system by the natural motion of the creature. In human's, the lymph node system works this way.

Then, obviously, came the heart, which dramatically increases the amount of chemicals that a given volume of fluid can convey throughout the body.

This is a trivially obvious progression even to a layman such as myself. Come on, you can do better than that! :)

old comment by

1. Eyes were evolved before amniotic organisms existed and we have a pretty good idea of the steps involved.
2-5. There was gas exchange before lungs. Lungs developed in conditions where they would more efficiently facilitate gas exchange.
6. If I recall correctly, the first organisms with brains existed before land animals.
7. Predator and prey constantly adapted to each other and chickens themselves underwent artificial selection.
8. That's been around for most of the time that there's been land animals.
9. *facepalm* Hydrogen bonding with oxygen isn't a biological process and thus cannot evolution as evolution is a biological process affecting populations.

old comment by Thal

When did it evolve eyes, and up until that time, how did it see?

Light sensitive cells first and reaction of flight from or attraction to light. Depending on which one helped it to survive and reproduce. Obviously it wasn't a chicken back then, not even a proto-fish.

When did it evolve lungs?

When it helped him escape from his water breathing predators thus giving him a reproductive advantage over other organisms. BTW it wasn't even a chicken back then.

Did it breath before it had lungs?

Either with gills or through skin. I admit I'm not sure where the amphibians are situated in the tree. Did I mention it wasn't a chicken that early in life history ?

If it didn't, why did the lungs evolve if it was doing just fine?

Because all the predators or competitors were water-breathing or amphibians. Escaping on land was the safest way to survive. Did I mention ... never mind, I did.

When did air evolve with the right mixture of oxygen to sustain its life?

It didn't, air isn't a living organism and don't evolve in anything. On the other hand lungs could only "adapt" to the then existing atmosphere or they would have been useless for survival and reproduction purpose.

When did the brain evolve so that it could think, and therefore eat food to sustain its life?

It never did. When was hunger "thinking" and not a reflex ? Have you often heard the sentence: "Silly me, I forgot to be hungry!" ?

When, how, and why did the food that it ate evolve?

It didn't evolve to BE food. But predators and parasites (a thin distinction IMO) appeared because STEALING molecules from a food source is easier than SYNTHESIZING it.
Yes: eating is just molecular thievery.

When did it get an instinct to drink water?

When it's ancestor became land-dwelling, marine and aquatic organism don't *really* need to drink for some reason. Did I mention .. oh s**** you get the idea !

When and why did water evolve?

When was water ever alive ? Hint: that's Pinky from Pinky and the Brain stupidity-level here.

The same questions apply for the pre-rooster. Did it evolve into a bird around the same time as the hen?

Yeah I'm sure sex was really useful when only males or females were around. [They're Pinky and the Brain ! Yes Pinky and the Brain ! One is a genius and you're the other !]

Why did it involve?

The day this sentence make any sense, I'm gonna blue Sunday.

Did the process take millions of years? How did the creature reproduce in the meantime?

Yes and Asexually (a dictionary is your friend).

How long was its lifespan if the process took millions of years?

How long is life if Earth is 6000 years ? It makes just as much as your question.

There are a few other questions about which evolved first--its heart, blood, or blood vessels. How did the heart work if there was no blood or blood vessels?

It didn't work. Might I add: "duh ?". Because it appeared last. Blood (hemolymph actually, again a dictionary is your friend) then contractile vessels (like proto-arteries. You know the difference between veins and arteries right ?). Heart last because it would have been an utter waste of molecules and energy otherwise.

like most believes in Darwinian evolution

Who *understands* evolution. Fixed it for you.

will say that questions show that I don't understand evolution

Well, if everybody keeps telling you the same thing, there might be a reason for this. Hint: these questions shows you're not only ignorant but proud of it.

Nobody does

Because none of the people you usually ask these questions to can't answer and because YOU can't doesn't mean "nobody" can. Most of those who weren't fed american christian beliefs do, as most scientist do, and more importantly: all those who spent years studying the subject do.
Did you spent the last few years studying biology ? Pinky-level question again.

old comment by Swede

The chicken was a dinosaur or similar before it evolved into a chicken. There is no such thing as "fully" evolved. We are all still evolving...

Eyes were evolved long before chickens emerged.
Lungs evolved long before chickens emerged.
Lungs evolved long before oxygen emerged.
Lungs are more efficient than the earlier forms to oxygenate blood.
Oxygen emerged, and 90 percent of all life died out from the toxic gas. Only the lifeforms that could live on the existing mixture survived.
It was the right kind of food that made the brain evolve so that it could think.
Evolution is an ongoing process. Food evolve to survive long enough to procreate, just as all other living things do.
Life comes from water, it was there before life emerged. Water is not a living thing, it did not evolve.

All this is very basic knowledge, most of it taught to 10-15-year-olds. I have a question for you, bananaman:
How come you don't know this already? Or do you know it and just pretend not to, to lure in the gullible marks?

Again, some dinosaur-like creature evolved more and more feathers and became smaller, either to hide from predators or because there was not enough food for larger creatures. Hens and roosters are the same species, so they evolved together, as hens give birth to rosters. The life-span has little or no impact, really, as it's procreation that drives evolution. If you live long enough to procreate, your species can evolve.

The dinosaur-like creature already had heart, blood and blood vessels.

No, dearie. Most educated people have no problem understanding actual evolution. It's your garbled strawman version of it that is kinda hard to fathom.

old comment by EG

Well, the answer to most of these is "it inherited them from its ancestors, which had the same trait". Now, if you ask "how did longs evolve", or "how did life breathe before there was oxygen", or "how did the nervous system evolve", those are interesting questions - and the answers are readily available.

Since life originated in water, drinking water is not so much an instinct that needs to be developed, it's basically a pre-condition. Anything trying to live out of water without the ability or inclination to go back to water or drink regularly dies. Same for nutrients: you don't need a brain to realise you need them.

Hens and cocks are the same species, you dolt. Neither one evolved before the other (although I suppose you could argue that masculinity evolved later than femininity); the term rooster (as far as I know) refers to domesticated birds, so chickens definitely predate them.

As for the heart - clearly there is no point to having one if you don't need to pump blood. Lo and behold, life forms that don't pump blood don't have one.

old comment by

Let's not forget that Ray believes that human evolution included males and females reproducing asexually, by "splitting in half" before they somehow simultaneously evolved compatible sexual organs and processes and started to reproduce sexually.

"Darwin theorized that mankind (both male and female) evolved alongside each other over millions of years, both reproducing after their own kind before the ability to physically have sex evolved. They did this through “asexuality” (“without sexual desire or activity or lacking any apparent sex or sex organs”). Each of them split in half (“Asexual organisms reproduce by fission (splitting in half).”

Ray Comfort gets it half right