shaedofblue #fundie

shaedofblue #fundie reddit.com

[I believe sexual agency means you are allowed to not sleep with whomever you want for whatever reason.]

Sexual agency means people are allowed to not sleep with people for bigoted reasons. It does not mean those reasons are not bigoted.

When people say they will not date members of (insert marginalized group), it is usually a red flag that the person is likely bigoted against that group.

[It does mean that you question someone's decision to not sleep with certain people, just because they belong to a marginalized group. I think doing so and preaching sexual agency at the same time hurts both causes. If someone is bigotted, then surely you will find another reason to call them out for. And if this is the only instance that could be interpreted as them being bigotted, and/or they have other reasons for it (e.g. if they were raped by a member of that marginalized group), then discounting them as "bigotted" seems like an awfully bad idea.]

That is like saying that believing in free speech and criticizing bigoted speech hurts both causes. That is bullshit.

Sexual preference is arbitrarily treated as sacred, and as such is often one of the only places where otherwise people who like to think of themselves as progressive are able to openly express bigotry. No one should have to wait until a less acceptable form of bigotry is expressed before they write off a toxic person for what they are.

And avoiding a marginalized group because one member committed a traumatizing crime is pretty much an embodiment of the definition of prejudice. If that is the case, it should be acknowledged as a problem and worked on.

35 comments

old comment by Warren McIntosh

He's quite right - no one is telling you who you can or cannot sleep with, but if your preference is based on blanket racial or other considerations rather than physical attraction on an individual basis, then its obviously evidence of bigotry. We have freedom of speech meaning its lawful to have racist views, but that doesn't mean we can't adjudge people who say racist things as racists.

The final sentence about traumatising crime needs nuance - if the racial identity or appearance of a person triggers traumatic memories etc then that is one thing and its obviously understandable why one would avoid them (you might avoid people with beards for the same reason). The statement "I don't date Asians because they are unsafe - one sexually assaulted me once" is just obvious bigotry and should not be pandered to.

old comment by Skidie

@pyro, Warren:

Seriously guys, you sound like each of you is trying to defend a view where certain estetic preferences are WRONG and most probably a sign of worse yet racist traits and damn, I will not have it...

Am I really a worse person to you for strongly prefering pale skin and certain face/body traits in my potential mate than say, somebody who doesn`t care either way? I try not to speak in absolutes when it comes to sexual stuff but physical looks would be a big turn off for me in 99,9% black males(notice the word turn off, because if I`d get in love with someone`s individual sentience, my look preferences get overriden and fast) and well, I refuse to be called racist on this grounds alone.

old comment by The Crimson Ghost

Not a good argument. I have zero interest in sleeping with women, so that somehow makes me bigoted against women, even though I am one? I also never dated any Asian guys, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't if the opportunity presented itself, & I thought that we would get along.

I think the underlying issue for this dunce here is that he's having difficulty accepting that people have different tastes & preferences, & no one prefers him. I think he also has a problem with the fact that looks matter; they always have & they always will. Looks aren't everything-what's inside is more important, but how you look & carry yourself counts. It counts just as much to women as it does to men, & this doofus hates that, because then he has to actually make an effort to shower & can't go out to the movies in his rattiest shorts & Crocs with a too tight Hooters t shirt. He's just another whiny, entitled man-child.

old comment by Slash

While serophobia is dickish, especially since we have about a million ways to reduce and all but eliminate the risk (condoms, PrEP which is meant to be used with condoms, HIV meds being much better nowadays where many healthy poz folks are undetectable, etc. Each lowers risk by a hugely significant margin and I'm not sure there's even a case thus far of all 3 factors being in play that has led to infection), it's still ultimately someone's choice whether or not to consent to sex with anyone else. People can and will do it for dickish reasons, but that does not mean that everyone or even most people are doing it for those reasons, since in no way are you ever obligated to have sex unless you fully consent to it because that's the way consent works.

Granted, he does have a couple good points, whether you take it in the context of serostatus or out of context for preferences as a whole. "no fats, no fems, no asians" is rightfully called out on being dickish and bigoted and people get called out for saying shit like that, for example. And HIV+ folks are very often targets of that as well, no matter how safe their viral load may be. Most poz folks I know you wouldn't know were poz from looking outside except they're good people so they're upfront about it. But that still does not mean, under any circumstances, someone should have to have sex with someone they don't want to. That subverts the entire idea of consent.

old comment by

I'm sorry, but I refuse to be told I'm bigoted for refusing to have sex with someone for any reason.

In the following statements, I'm talking about purely physical attraction. Love overrides all, but we're not getting into that.

I personally don't find East Asian people to be generally sexually attractive. This means that if I'm going to have sex, it's not likely to be an East Asian. This doesn't mean I dislike East Asian people, or that I'll never meet one that makes my giblies tingle, just that their appearance doesn't "do it" for me.

Insofar as the "serophobia" claim, I don't view the risk as being worth the reward. Again, we're speaking only about that physical attraction. If you can make my giblies tingle, but you've got HIV, I'm probably not going to go for it, regardless of condoms, PrEP, or anything else. It's not worth a potentially life threatening illness.